Posted on 09/09/2004 8:26:08 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
Well, Chechya was an autonomous region, not a Republic, but that is a detail. The only problem with your suggestion, is that given the situation, the I think about 50% or close to it ethnic Russian population of the place would have been forced to decamp. Chechnya ain't Estonia.
We did not eradicate the Germans, we waged war on the Nazis.
If we can get past the idiotic vitriol, we will eventually find common ground.
The problem in Chechnya is differentiating the terrorists from the people; we know that a number of Chechens are NOT terrorists because they LEFT Chechnya. So the Chechen people themselves are not the actual problem.
The problem is Chechen terrorists disguising themselves as separatists and freedom fighters. In a way, the claim to freedom fighter has a certain amount of validity; Chechens have never truly stopped fighting the Russian occupation of their country, but the actions that we've come to witness from Chechen terrorists simply blow away any semblance of validity their claim that they are simply freedom fighters.
Putin wants no outside interference in handling Chechnya, I believe the exact opposite is called for in Chechnya...Russia needs to be reined in by the European Union, and the terrorists need to be hunted down and destroyed by NATO.
One last thing, and you can call this my tin foil Beslan theory...
We know several things:
We know that there are actually Chechen separatists working in Chechnya.
We know that there are war lords working to seize control of certain regions in Chechnya.
We know Russia is not interested in an independent Chechnya because of what happened the last time Chechnya claimed independence.
We know Wahhabi extremism is at work in Chechnya.
What benefits did the perpetrators of the horrible Beslan massacre expect to gain from their actions?
None...there was absolutely no positive outcome to Beslan...even if the Russian government had caved in to every single one of their demands, because the second the hostages were released, Russian troops would move back into Chechnya.
So, why do something that would have the effect of rallying the world opinion behind your enemy, and veritably the hatred and contempt of every civilized person leveled at you and your cause?
Call me crazy (I've been called worse) but in the aftermath of Beslan, there appears to be one clear beneficiary...Putin.
Putin has world opinion behind him, and a green light to handle Chechnya as he sees fit, and have it written off as righteous anger.
And anyone who does not believe the Russian government capable of such actions, does not remember what Russia, and the USSR have been historically capable of.
There is only one other entity that could possibly benefit from Beslan...Muslim terrorism, because soon, and as a result of the backlash caused by the massacre at beslan, they will be able to claim more persecution of Muslims, and will have successfully created a second front in its war against the West.
Fifty percent of the people of Chechnya are already either dead, or dislodged.
P.S. I don't like Russia. I don't believe that suddenly, the Evil Empire became Oz.
And the same people are still in charge.
Please...
World Net Daily publishing the "secret" plan for the take over of America by Islam?
Give me a break.
A few days ago I decided to turn over a new leaf in FR, and that includes not wasting my time debating or discussing issues with people who can't maintain things at an adult level. There was a reason for my question, and nothing you posted was new to me.
But you had to go where you went so...
It's Bozo time for you.
Well NATO ain't gonna get anywhere near Chechnya, or even address the matter. This will remain an internal Russian matter. The issue is what should Russia do, that is in its best interest, and right and moral. If Chechnya were ethnically homogenious, or near so, the clear and compelling answer on every level, in every way, would be easy. Let the people go, the way Havel did with Slovakia, and sooner rather than later, since the place is an economic tarbaby.
"Better to stand with the Nuke Mecca crowd, than to stand with the Nuke America horde. You pick your stand, I will pick mine."
If I think Mecca could be taken out with something less than a nuke, can I still join the Nuke Mecca crowd?
The only reason why Chechnya is not ethnically homogeneous is the lengthy Russian occupation of the region. Here's why NATO...Russia no longer has the military chops to pull this off!
I'm not saying that it's going to happen the way I'd like to see it happen, what I am saying is that NATO and the EU would make the clean up in Chechnya seem more like war, and less like revenge.
But you and I know that NATO and the EU (Russia is not part of the EU and is not a candidate to be a part), won't say a peep about this matter, much less get involved. Russia will have to work this one out by itself. The issue is what should it do, if Torie or Luis were the absolute dictator of Russia?
Well, I would have been out of there years ago for one. But that's not what you're asking.
Pull troops out and use them to contain terrorists within Chechnya's borders, set up friendly government, arm them, and have them self-police (sound familiar?) then send in Special Forces to look for specific people to arrest if possible, kill if necessary.
No rounding up relatives, or razing villages.
The right way is never the easy way.
Luis, this is one matter, where all the options suck. The mensch needs to just decide which option sucks least, and be honest about it, and defend it with intelligence and consistency. What is the right option. given all that? Well, I don't know. Awareness of ignorance is the first step to knowledge.
Not really...I was thinking closer to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Remember one thing...this one will become our problem soon.
We've murdered over 40 million unborn babies in the United States since 1973...please define "baby killers".
Lay off it buddy. There are a lot of Mormon freepers here
You completely misunderstand me. I am saying that a muslim who doesn't follow muhammed (mhbihf) is the same thing as a Mormon who doesn't follow Smith - a non-sequiter. Smith founded the COLDS and established how its followers are to behave.
muhammed (mhbihf) founded the mongrel islam and established how its followers are to behave. To suggest that someone can be a muslim and ignore muhammed (mhbihf) makes no sense.
I am NOT drawing any kind of equivalency or connection between the two. If any of our COLDS folks took it that way, I am sorry for the misunderstanding.
Sorry I bowed up. There is a certain sect here at FR that believes if you don't go to their church, you aren't Christian. It rankles me to see that at this point in the world.
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