Posted on 09/09/2004 10:39:04 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
You're still holding a grudge because Stalin bumped off Trotsky, aren't you Luis?
"As far as I am concerned, Chechnya was conquered and annexed to Russian Federation in 2000.""And definitely, Russia has nothing to be ashamed of it - Chechens DESERVED Russian conquest."
I know that given enough rope, you'd reveal yourself as an old communist.
A bunch of bluster from Mr. Moneybags. As much as he carps about Putin etc, they guy has made a mint from "the new Russia." The last thing he'll do is disturb that. Soros needs to be deeply investigated, and all that is found shared openly with the whole world. I think we would all find out things that are quite surprising to each of us were this to be done.
Or perhaps, a new National Bolshevik?
>Or perhaps, a new National Bolshevik?
If you mean Mr. Limonov's National Bolshevik Party, it ceased to exist for me, after he called for surrender in Chechnya during Beslan crisis.
Please don't tell me about thread manners. You used the same argument (without merit) twice.
FYI I was pinged to this thread by someone else. Are you attempitng to get me banned and that's why you made that comment? Is that your M.O.?
And since when is having a discussion a flame war? If it were a flame war, you would DEFINITELY know it.
There's an article posted and an ongoing discussion on it. Are you going to comment on it, or carry on an argument from an unrelated thread?
Any legitimate grievances the Chechan seperatists may have had against the Russian government were nullified by their terrorist tactics against the civilian population. Russia has the sovereign authority to suppress such lawless insurrection and rebellion. If Chechens wish to wage a legitimate war of independence, they should restrict their actions to legitimate government targets.
Well, maybe I'll comment on it since you asked me nicely.
I don't care that years ago 25 million people suffered under the Russian regime. I care whether Russia will not take on terror.
Okay with you now?
http://www.chechnyafree.ru/index.php?lng=eng§ion=mhiscoseng&row=1
Imam Mansur launched an anticolonial war in the Northern Caucasus in 1785. His men attacked the forts of Kizlyar, Vladikavkaz and Grigoripolis, as well as numerous Cossack villages. And it was not until 1859 that Russia had finally settled the problem of the left bank of the Terek by capturing Imam Shamil and scattering his troops.
http://www.cecenonline.com/eng/history.htm
1780 - The Chechens started a rising against the occupation by the tsar Russia. The leader of the Jihad was Sheikh Mansur! Imam Mansur was arrested in 1791 and got the martyrdom in 1794 in the jail of Slisselarg.
"Speedy Gonzales was a little to fast with his history. Chechnya has been part of Russia since the 18th century."
So who is wrong now 'useful idiot'?
Yeah. There are MANY Chechen-bandit (and KLA, etc.) "human rightser" apologists, at the highest levels of Western society. But they are in NO WAY real humanitarians--they just want to destroy traditional societies and pick at their flesh and bones for economic gain and political power. And they use islamist thugs to do their dirty work.
These are the same "human rightsers" who are imposing the gay agenda on us beleagered American Lutherans, and on other churches and countries (e.g., eastern European aspirants to EU/NATO membership, most of which are Orthodox Christian but some of which also have sizeable orthodox Lutheran populations). I say PHOOEY to all of them!!!!
By the way, I am one of the alleged "leaders" who gets those Economist subscription ads in the mail--they're probably trying to appeal to my vanity. I'll bet that many others reading this post get the same mailings.
Poland is Roman Catholic, but also has problems with Western promotion of pederasty.
The poster in question is a tool, I don't waste my time...
There are people in this world who, lacking the ability to advance a notion, support an idea, or debate a point, resort to the one method available to them...vitriol.
You are one of those people.
Chechen terrorists committed an atrocity of monumental scale in Beslan, no one in this thread, myself included, has actually defended them; the article begins with a clear statement to that effect: "Nobody should excuse what happened in Beslan."
But beyond that, and addressed in the second part of that opening line is the actual topic of the article: "but Chechnya still needs a solution."
Here's a clue cowboy: Chechnya will not be nuked, they will not be razed from the Earth, and their people will not be massacred by the Russians. None of those are solutions that either Russia, or any civilized Western nation will embrace, and anyone who advocates such actions is no better than the people who murdered those children, because they too will be advocating the murder of children.
Now, in your infinite ignorance, you believe that a sophomoric game of name-calling while hiding behind the anonymity of an Internet bulletin board makes you brave, or maybe strong, or maybe even a man...it does none of those things, and in all actuality, it has the exact opposite effect...it exposes you as an immature, boorish dolt.
Chechnya still needs a solution, and you don't have the first notion of what that solution is...as a matter of fact, you can't even get Chechen history straight:
Imperial Russia's control of the Caucasus stretched from 1818 to 1917 the Chechens fought bitterly during an unsuccessful rebellion in the 1850's led by Imam Shamyl; the Bolsheviks seized the region in 1918, but were dislodged in 1919.
After Soviet rule was reestablished, the area was included in 1921 in the Mountain People's Republic, the Chechen Autonomous Region was created in 1922, in 1934 it became part of the Chechen-Ingush Region, and in 1936, it was made a republic.
The fact that an Imam from the region attacked Cossacks in 1785 has nothing to do with the fact that Russia conquered Chechnya in the 19th, not the 17th, Century.
Years ago?
I recall the Evil Empire existing not all that long ago.
Absolutely correct. Likewise, Russia has a lot to answer for in their treatment of the Chechen people.
"Russia has the sovereign authority to suppress such lawless insurrection and rebellion."
To my amazement, this forum praises the Spanish for throwing out the Muslims seven hundred years after their conquest, but seems to think that the Chechens should not be allowed to throw the Russians out of their land.
"If Chechens wish to wage a legitimate war of independence, they should restrict their actions to legitimate government targets."
I don't see anyone on this thread, or in this forum saying anything to the contrary...I'm certainly not.
So now...what's the solution to Chechnya?
How would you guarantee safety for the neigboring Russian provinces? How would you provide access to the world for the Chechen state? (Chechnya is in the middle of Russian territory with the exception of mountain passes to Georgia)
How will you prevent a new influx (through those mountain passes) of Islamist militants? How will you prevent the tribal warfare between Chechens, Ingush, Osetians, Dagestanis and other tribes?
Will the NATO troops do better job than in Kosovo? Will the Bondsteel style American base be established in Chechnya? If Russian government collapses how will you stabilize Russia?
If Russian treated Chechens the same way Americans treated warlike Indian tribes, the problem would not exist. Or at least same way as Poles treated Ukrainian guerillas (in the mountain area in south-east, in size comparable to Chechnya) after WWII (they deported and dispersed them over newly acquired territories in the West).
Should Russians emulate those two examples?
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