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To: sweneop

And I understand what you're saying. My problem is with Islam, not with Muslims. You are right that there are interpretations and people who don't get into it in a deep or intellectual way. But a religion is not what people say it is. Judaism is what the Old Testament says it is. Christianity is what the New Testament says it is. And Islam is what the Koran says it is. And if it is hostile and has proven to inspire hostility in its adherents, then I am hostile toward it. It will be a constant source of trouble, as it has been. I am for eradicating the root cause, the REAL root cause.


64 posted on 09/08/2004 8:05:41 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
the majority of chechens arent strict muslims, they are sufis. many muslim scholars argue that sufis arent even muslims. sufism may predate islam, and teaches tolerance of other religions. dervishes (those guys with dresses that spin and spin till they reach a trance like state) are sufis. sufis are actually pretty ok.

Sufis believe that their teachings are the essence of every religion, and indeed of the evolution of humanity as a whole. The central concept in Sufism is "love".

doesnt sound much like islam? it pretty much isnt.

from 1999 to 2002, the actual chechen government issued 121 statements against terrorism. here are some: http://www.peaceinchechnya.org/background/bg_denounceterr.pdf

russias been conquering chechnya (first in 1858 after a 46 year war), losing it, getting it again, stalin shipping the ENTIRE population to siberia and kazakistan (between one quarter to one half the population dies that time), allowing them back, they declare independance from the commies, russia invades them a few times (1994 - 100,000 killed, apparently mostly civilians). google 'filtration camps' as well.

i dont want to defend any actions of the terrorists, id be happy to tie them all up and throw them off a cliff, but i dont like generalisations. if you look at what the terrorists do and generalise about a whole nation, you are letting those terrorists dictate your opinion to you.

now apparently 70% of chechen fighters are secular and loyal to the president. one faction, which has ties to organised crime and arab mercs is believed to have ties to terrorists. these ties appear to be a little more confirmed based on recent events.

we need to know who our enemies are. this needs more thought than just a knee-jerk reaction. our enemy knows the regional complications a lot better than we do, and they use this to their advantage. if their goal is to ignite the caucuses then just a knee jerk reaction is falling right into their hands. when we (or in this case, the russians) strike, we need to do it where it hurts them, not where they want us to.
65 posted on 09/08/2004 9:09:27 PM PDT by sweneop
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