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Putin Urges Strength; School Toll Tops 340
My Way News ^ | 9/4/04 | MIKE ECKEL/AP

Posted on 09/04/2004 2:18:21 PM PDT by wagglebee

BESLAN, Russia (AP) - A shaken President Vladimir Putin made a rare and candid admission of Russian weakness Saturday in the face of an "all-out war" by terrorists after more than 340 people - nearly half of them children - were killed in a hostage-taking at a southern school.

Putin went on national television to tell Russians that they must mobilize against terrorism and promised wide-ranging reforms to toughen security forces and purge corruption.

"We showed weakness, and weak people are beaten," he said.

Shocked relatives wandered among row after row of bodies lined up in black plastic or clear body bags on the pavement at a morgue in Vladikavkaz, the capital of North Ossetia, where the dead from the school standoff in Baslan were taken. In some open bags lay the contorted, thin bodies of children, some monstrously charred.

In Baslan, other relatives scoured lists of names to see if their loved ones had survived the chaos of the day before, when the standoff turned into violence, with militants setting off explosives in the school and commandos moving in to seize the building.

Workers cleaned up the gymnasium where the more than 1,000 hostages were held during the 62-hour ordeal. The gym of School No. 1 was reduced to a shell - the roof destroyed, the windows shattered - during Friday's fighting.

Regional Emergency Situations Minister Boris Dzgoyev said 323 people, including 156 children, were killed. More than 542 people including 336 children were hospitalized, medical officials said.

Dzgoyev also said 35 attackers - heavily-armed and explosive-laden men and women who were reportedly demanding independence for Chechnya - were killed in 10 hours of battles that shook the area around the school with gunfire and explosions after 1 p.m. Friday. Earlier, a senior prosecutor had said there were only 26 militants and all were killed. The discrepancy could not immediately be explained.

Putin made a quick visit to the town before dawn Friday, meeting local officials and touring a hospital to speak with wounded. He stopped to stroke the head of one injured child.

But some in the region were unimpressed, as grief turned to anger, both at the militants and at the government response.

"Putin arrived and left in the middle of the night while everyone is sleeping, probably because he was afraid to talk with the people, to look them in the eyes," said Zalina Gutiyeva, 37, a pediatrician in Vladikavkaz, the capital of North Ossetia, a Russian Orthodox region set amid the predominantly Muslim North Caucasus.

It was still unclear how exactly the standoff fell apart into violence on Friday. Officials say security forces had not intended to storm the building but were forced to when hostage-takers set off explosives - some however questioned that version.

The militants seized the school on the first day of classes on Wednesday, herding hundreds of children, parents who had been dropping their kids off, and other adults into the gymnasium, which the militants promptly wired with explosives - including bombs hanging from the basketball hoops. The packed gym became sweltering, and the hostage-takers refused to allow in food or water.

One survivor, Sima Albegova, told the Kommersant newspaper she asked the militants, why the captives were taken. "Because you vote for your Putin," one of the militants told her, she said.

Another freed hostages said a militant told her, "The federal forces killed our children and you didn't help us. If Putin doesn't withdraw forces from Chechnya and doesn't free our arrested brothers, we'll blow everything up," according to the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper.

Russian officials said the bloodshed began when explosions were apparently set off by the militants - possibly by accident - as emergency workers entered the school courtyard to collect the bodies of hostages killed in the initial raid Wednesday.

Diana Gadzhinova, a 14-year-old hostage, was quoted as telling Izvestia that the militants had ordered the hostages to lie face down in the gymnasium as workers approached to collect the bodies.

"They told us that there were going to be talks," she said. Others also told stories of how the explosions sent the militants guarding them running in what appeared to be confusion and surprise to see what had happened.

Hostages fled during the explosions, and the militants opened fire on them. Security forces opened fire in return, and commandos moved in, officials said.

The explosions tore through the roof of the gymnasium, sending wreckage down on hostages, killing many. Many survivors emerged naked covered in ashes and soot, their feet bloody from jumping barefoot out of broken windows to escape.

During his visit to Beslan, Putin stressed that security officials had not planned to storm the school - trying to fend off any potential criticism that the government side had provoked the bloodshed. He ordered the region's borders closed while officials searched for everyone connected with the attack.

"What happened was a terrorist act that was inhuman and unprecedented in its cruelty," Putin said in his televised speech later. "It is a challenge not to the president, the parliament and the government but a challenge to all of Russia, to all of our people. It is an attack on our nation."

Putin took a defiant tone, acknowledging Russia's weaknesses, but blaming it on the fall of the Soviet Union, foreign foes seeking to tear apart Russia and on corrupt officials. He said Russians could no longer live "carefree" and must all confront terrorism.

He called for Russians to mobilize against what he said was the "common danger" of terrorism. Measures would be taken, Putin promised, to overhaul the law enforcement organs, which he acknowledged had been infected by corruption, and tighten borders.

"We are obliged to create a much more effective security system and to demand action from our law enforcement organs that would be adequate to the level and scale of the new threats," he said.

The school attack was the latest violence thought connected to Chechen separatists who have been battling Russian rule for more than a decade. IT came after a suicide bomb attack outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday that killed eight people, and last week's near-simultaneous crashes of two Russian jetliners after what officials believe were explosions on board.

An unidentified intelligence official was quoted by the ITAR-Tass news agency as saying the school assault was financed by Abu Omar As-Seyf, an Arab who allegedly represents al-Qaida in Chechnya, and masterminded by Chechen rebel leader Shamil Basayev.

With some families gathering for wakes for the dead, some were vowing vengeance in North Ossetia, a Russian Orthodox Christian region in the mainly Muslim North Caucasus.

"Fathers will bury their children, and after 40 days (the Orthodox mourning period) ... they will take up weapons and seek revenge," said Alan Kargiyev, a 20-year-old university student in Vladikavkaz.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: barbarians; ossetia; putin; terrorism
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To: valleygal

its not cold blood.


61 posted on 09/04/2004 3:19:54 PM PDT by phxaz (w: 7 minutes of composure. kerry: 37 minutes of paralysis.)
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To: phxaz

You're evil.


62 posted on 09/04/2004 3:23:07 PM PDT by Kornev
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To: phxaz
piss on you russia. youre getting what you deserve.

Just in case your post gets pulled, I want all to see what you said. How HORRIBLE is that statement????? WHY did you feel the need for that?

63 posted on 09/04/2004 3:23:41 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma
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To: wagglebee

You're right, and that quote, 'We showed weakness, and weak people are beaten,' should resonate in the US. Hello, Liberals everywhere and JF..ing Kerry. Muslim monsters are only interested in sitting down to chat after they've blown up all you hold dear and plan to move on to the next school, town, country. They shoot you in the back as they run out the door. There's no compromise possible. Total defeat is necessary, whatever that takes.


64 posted on 09/04/2004 3:24:40 PM PDT by hershey
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To: phxaz
its not cold blood.

Do tell. What IS cold blood if THIS wasn't?

65 posted on 09/04/2004 3:25:03 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma
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To: wagglebee; ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; ...
[...] Terrorists think that they are stronger, that they will be able to intimidate us, to paralyze our will, to erode our society. It seems that we have a choice: to resist or to cave in and agree with their claims; to give up and allow them to destroy and to take Russia apart, in hope that eventually they would leave us alone.[...]

Very good speech!

66 posted on 09/04/2004 3:27:06 PM PDT by A. Pole (Madeleine Albright:"We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.")
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To: phxaz

I'm waiting for an answer, as I'm sure many others are. If this wasn't cold blood, WHAT IS?


67 posted on 09/04/2004 3:27:44 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma
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To: wagglebee

That's one heck of a speech.


68 posted on 09/04/2004 3:28:35 PM PDT by hershey
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To: M Kehoe

I'm with you all the way on Fallujah's continued existence on earth. The only question is why?


69 posted on 09/04/2004 3:31:02 PM PDT by hershey
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To: Criminal Number 18F
Chechen terrorists even operated successfully inside the old Soviet Union. The Police State only suppresses legitimate dissent, not terrorism.

Chechnyans got nowhere until Russian communism was overthrown. Their scale of terror was much lower. The Russian police state-KGB kept these eternal pests in their place. Their role was limited to display of colorful folkloric costumes in "Soviet Life"

70 posted on 09/04/2004 3:34:34 PM PDT by dennisw (Allah FUBAR!)
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To: wagglebee

"I think history will look back on this tragedy as a pivotal event in the war on terror. Putin will now be firmly behind Bush, and the Russians will be absolutely ruthless when it comes to dealing with the jihadists.
"

I think as far as terrorism is concerned, the us and russia have been on the same page for a long time. Other differences between the countries, such as economics, geopolitics (meaning the US integrating former SSR;s and warsaw pact members into NATO), and the invasion of Iraq (which the bulk of the world believes was a secular despotic government that did not support AQ) are the major issues between the US and russia. The US has always made sympathetic notes when russia goes and razes villages or whatever in chechnya.


71 posted on 09/04/2004 3:37:32 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: wagglebee

I hope that he will behind Bush, but from his statement it was caused by the fall of the Soviet Union, I'm more afraid that he will turn back fully to communism. He already rules somewhat with an iron fist and loose freedoms for the people. This might push him over the edge in the wrong direction.


72 posted on 09/04/2004 3:38:06 PM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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To: dennisw

"As far as I can tell it exists because GWBush cannot handle many (any?) American combat deaths and still get re-elected."

My take on this is different....it is because the US cannot take decisive action against civilian areas due to the media's complete opposition to US policy in iraq and its willingness to show the most inflamatory images to the world, and as a corrolary the US unwillingness to suffer the consequences of such images being publicized.


73 posted on 09/04/2004 3:40:48 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: Brad's Gramma

the blood that runs through your pc veins. thats what.

russia isnt our ally in the war on terror, they are our enemy. americans died because of the policies and popular opinions of that trash nation. not with us = against us. more of those who are against us that die the better.


74 posted on 09/04/2004 3:42:24 PM PDT by phxaz (w: 7 minutes of composure. kerry: 37 minutes of paralysis.)
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To: Bobby777

The only way Israel will be around in 30 years will be due to divine intervention. As for Mohammedanism, it will get nuked up, use nukes, then be obliterated starting with Mecca and Tehran. The Iranians have the most power. They have 70 million population and sponsor terror world wide. If they get nukes it will be even worse. The only way they don't get nukes is GWBush wins big enough for the US and/or Israel to take direct action.


75 posted on 09/04/2004 3:42:46 PM PDT by dennisw (Allah FUBAR!)
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To: WoofDog123

I don't disagree. If the media were neutral then America could tolerate combat deaths and a cleansing of Falluja terrorists. But a neutral media is in the past. I'm amazed conservatives win any elections. They do only because conservatism is watered down from what it used to be.


76 posted on 09/04/2004 3:46:21 PM PDT by dennisw (Allah FUBAR!)
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To: dennisw

"I'm amazed conservatives win any elections."

Isn't it amazing? As you alluded, today's republicans are arguably more liberal than 1960's democrats, though.

I wonder how it would be if we were still living in a 1990-style information age (tv and print media only, no fox)?


77 posted on 09/04/2004 3:53:33 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: oceanview
"My conclusion is taht Putin won't really be doing much about this, there isn't going to be any kind of large scale military action. "

I think you are missing a careful analysis of Putin's options. What are they?

  1. A lot of the terrorists were "Chechen. He's not going to announce to the world that he is going to get tougher with them. He already has territorial control. He doesn't need to influence world opinion to do what he needs to do.
  2. He did note an international element to the terrorists. And Al Quaeda has been named as well But again here Putin's options are limited.
    • the US already controls Afghanistan, you can't invade there.
    • The US already controls Iraq, you can't invade there.
    • He could go after Syria or Iran, but he has had too close of relations with them.
    • He could go after Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Morrocco, but I doubt unless he builds a strong case linking one of their governments to the terrorism, he would have domestic support for doing so.

Putin's problem is that unlike Bush who already had Osama and Saddam in his cross-hairs, Putin doesn't have a target, except the Chechen Islamists that he already is at war with.

The investigation might turn up a target. Syria and Iran do need to be dealt with. And Egypt's culture needs to be changed to. Whether Putin want's to tackle one of those or support the U.S. and let us do it, remainst to be seen.

78 posted on 09/04/2004 3:58:30 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: phxaz
the blood that runs through your pc veins.

You don't know me well.

Well, at least you came back to answer me. I'll give ya that much.

79 posted on 09/04/2004 4:00:13 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma
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To: wagglebee

When does the bombing start?


80 posted on 09/04/2004 4:01:58 PM PDT by angcat
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