Cheney Backs Freedom for Gay Relationships

AP ^ | 8-24-04

[ambrose]

Posted on Tue, Aug. 24, 2004

Cheney Backs Freedom for Gay Relationships

TODD DVORAK

Associated Press

DAVENPORT, Iowa - Vice President Dick Cheney, whose daughter Mary is a lesbian, spoke supportively about gay relationships on Tuesday, saying "freedom means freedom for everyone."

At a campaign rally in this Mississippi River town, Cheney was asked about his stand on gay marriage - an issue for which his boss, President Bush, has pushed for a constitutional amendment to ban such unions.

"Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney said. "With the respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone ... People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to.

"The question that comes up with the issue of marriage is what kind of official sanction or approval is going to be granted by government? Historically, that's been a relationship that has been handled by the states. The states have made that fundamental decision of what constitutes a marriage," he said.

Bush backs a constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage, a move Cheney says was prompted by various judicial rulings, including the action in Massachusetts that made gay marriage legal.

"I think his perception was that the courts, in effect, were beginning to change, without allowing the people to be involved," Cheney said. "The courts were making the judgment for the entire country."

That stand put Cheney at odds with his wife. Last month, Lynne Cheney said states should have the final say over the legal status of personal relationships, a comment that came just days before the Senate failed to back the ban.

Cheney said the amendment did not have the votes to pass, but he also said the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which President Clinton signed into law in 1996, may be sufficient to resolve the issue.

The Cheneys have two daughters, both of whom are working on the campaign. Mary Cheney is director of vice presidential operations for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign. She held a public role as her father's assistant in the 2000 campaign and helped the GOP recruit gay voters during the 2002 midterm elections.

During the 2000 campaign, vice presidential candidate Dick Cheney took the position that states should decide legal issues about personal relationships and that people should be free to enter relationships of their choosing.

While Bush and Cheney back the proposed constitutional amendment, their Democratic rivals, Sens. John Kerry of Massachusetts and John Edwards of North Carolina, oppose the amendment.

The Democrats also oppose gay marriage, but defend a gay couple's rights to the same legal protections as those conferred in marriage.

[nopardons]

For some reason or other,some children really ARE born with other sexual orientations.You CAN see it in toddlers,who are far too young to have been influenced by parents/the outside world.No,I'm NOT talking about girls who are "tomboys",but rather extremely effeminate little boys.

As far as "trannies" are concerned,that's a mental illness! OTOH,some children are born hermaphroditic and THEY should be helped with surgery.

Some people,not born with those kind of proclivities,adapt/are drawn to homosexuality/lesbianism for several reasons...1)they think it's "cool" 2) they are rebellious 3)they want to hurt their parents 4)they are manipulated (usually girls)by radical/crazy teachers/profs/cultural icons to "just try it" 5)engage in such behaviors to forward a career/job 5)have deleterious relationships with a parent/parents.

Yes,I absolutely DO believe that this behavior is aberrant;however,in a way,it is also "normal" in that it has been around since man began.Even when it has been outlawed and a taboo,there have been homosexuals and lesbians.The ONLY difference between times prior to our own,starting in the early 20th century,is that until the modern era,lesbians were NEVER,not even in the Bible,considered to be relevant/real.The Victorians didn't even believe lesbianism existed at all. And I have NO idea why that is,but it's true.

And please don't drag in Sapho! She wasn't considered to be a LESBIAN,writ large,until the 20th century lesbian discovered her and her poetry fragments and claimed her as their own.For millenia,her poetry was thought to have been heterosexual erotica.

Of course this topic is much more complex,but I gave you a few things to mull over.

[asmith92008]

Your arguments all rely on the enforcement of moral standards.

The age of consent reflects society's moral belief that children should not have sex. The American Psychological Association has been considering delisting pedophilia as a disorder, as it did with homosexuality. There has also been an increase in literature from respectable publishers and institutions claiming that children are not harmed by having sex with adults. If this movement continues, as it did for homosexuality, would you be willing to consider "freedom for pedophiles?

The legal status argument for justifying bans on cousin sex/marriage also fails because society recognizes a variety of muddled familial relationships, such as step families. again, it is morality keeping these laws in place.

For closer into the family, you cite the danger of genetic degeneration. However, this does not address the case of infertile male/female relationships within the same family or a father marrying his son.

Laws against bestiality also have no logical ban outside of morality. If one can eat a cow, why can't he futter it?

Finally, your argument on group marriage is quite weak. Lines of descent can be determined by DNA. Perhaps you've heard of it? If two men can marry, you have no logical basis to stop three men or five women and six men.

In the end, the attempt to divorce morality from our law in the name of "freedom" will simply enslave our society to its most base instincts.

[Torie]

You think? :)

[Torie]

Sapho's fragments are interesting, whether she was lesbian or not, and I suspect she was, because she was appears to us as a thoroughly "modern" women through our lens, and her fragments have a certain sophisticated anti establishment sublety which also fasincates, in part because they are fragments. That is why she resonants so. She certainly would have been an interesting campanion at the dinner table, even if alas, for me, probably not in bed.

[beaversmom]

[beaversmom]

I thought the two Americans would engage in 69 right on the sand before the audience and NBC television.

LOL!

I came across those two pics on Yahoo before I read your post. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I can see why men would like to watch beach volleyball--these women like to put on a show.

[beaversmom]

Just turned into Prager late and he was talking about the beach volleyball and the way women dress--guess he saw the same thing.