China tests new guided missile

Reuters ^ | Tue 17 August, 2004

[Cronos]

Broad -- I'm talking about the 1920s -- Russia was still in turmoil between the White and Red Russians -- here's the link:

1920, 7 May - Polish Army captures Kiev

1920, 13-15 August - The Battle of Warsaw: a Red Army counter-attack reaches the outskirts of Warsaw where it is stopped. The war against Russia ends with Polish victory and defines the eastern border of the country

[Bobby777]

Excellent analogy with Poland. China sounds like Saddam Hussein eyeing Kuwait. They have a huge land mass but haven't developed it to its potential, so why not take over a small neighboring nation?

amazing

[broadsword]

Oh, man, I'm sorry! I looked at WWI and thought I saw WWII.

[however1]

"to be more precise, the KMT would have done that if they could".

I agree with this. If the KMT were not ousted to Taiwan but
kept an foot on Mainland, especially, if there were a cease-fire for CCP and KMT using the Yanze River as a border line, there would have been lots and lots of fighting from both side. Taiwan is too small to fullfil the ambition of retaking the mainland.

There is also another big difference for Taiwan from others. Taiwanese is far closer to Chinese than the Polish to Russian. Even today in Taiwan, many people still think themselves as Chinese, although the number is reducing.

[Cronos]

China sounds like Saddam Hussein eyeing Kuwait. They have a huge land mass but haven't developed it to its potential, so why not take over a small neighboring nation?

I hate to bring this up, but that analogy isn't accurate either. China sees Taiwan as a threat -- the opposition to the communists in China's civil war (the KMT)fled there in 1949 and have it as part of their aspirations to re-take the mainland. NOTE: I do make a difference between the KMT and the native Taiwanese.

[Fishing-guy]

"I do make a difference between the KMT and the native Taiwanese."

This is the part that makes the Taiwan situation complicated. Although all Taiwanese are ethnically Chinese (execept for few aborigines), they draw the line between people who have been there for generations and those who recently moved there with KMT.

Even among the "natives," there appears to be many different dialects of Taiwanese, depending on which parts of China their ancestors came from.

[Bobby777]

hmmm ... I just don't see how Taiwan could have any serious threat ... *except* the ideology of more freedom versus a Marxist state ... if that's true, China fears its own people being free, no?

[Cronos]

I just don't see how Taiwan could have any serious threat ... *except* the ideology of more freedom versus a Marxist state ... if that's true, China fears its own people being free, no?

Taiwan was formed by the retreating KMT.

The KMT (primarily fascist) were in combat with the communists throughout the 20s and 30s. This civil war was interrupted by the Japanese invasion.

The KMT were defeated in 1949 and retreated to Taiwan, vowing to return and conquer the mainland. The Communists remember this.

Sure, to someone who doesn't know the history and just looks in, it may seem that it's a big state threatening a little one, but the historical reasons are a lot deeper

[Bobby777]

this was Chaing Kai Shek's thing right? I guess I must not have remembered him as facist ...

but, is Taiwan doing anything overtly that makes China nervous? sure they have bought some ships and tried to buy others ... I'm thinking of 1996(?) when China had that massive exercise that almost looked like an invasion ...

hmmm ... interesting

[Cronos]

But, is Taiwan doing anything overtly that makes China nervous?
No. In real terms I wouldn't say Taiwan is a military threat to China, but memories die hard in those parts of the world

[Fishing-guy]

You have your old KMT vs. communist rivalry.

Then you have the Taiwan independence issue, which is more threatening to the communists and the general Chinese psyche. If Taiwan goes independence and dissolves Republic of China, that means Taiwan has completely separated from China.