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TRANSCRIPT BEGINS

from The Michael Savage show, captured from air, AM 920 WMEL Melbourne, Florida 8/6/2004

Savage: Kerry's controversial war record that we're talking about; we would not be talking about it were it not for the fact the Kerry is using his war record as the centerpiece of his campaign. Now over 200 Swift Boat Veterans have come out and said that he's a charlatan and worse. The newspapers are trying to spin this by saying that they're all disreputable and that none of them actually served with Kerry. Well, right now on the Savage Nation I have Steve Gardner ... who says he was John Kerry's machine gunner on the very same boat ... Steve Gardner, welcome to the Savage Nation.

Gardner: Happy to be here, Michael, I really appreciate you allowing me to come on the show.

Savage: Well, Steve, you were on two weeks ago, we had a very good discussion, and now its being said that no one who was condemning Kerry or questioning him even, actually served with him; aren't you a man that served with John Kerry?

Gardner: Absolutely [emphatically] I served right on the man's boat and I stayed right with him. I was with him for 2 months and 2 weeks of his 4 month tour of duty. That he called ...

Savage: Why are we not hearing from you ... why is the media saying that no one who served with him is condemning him? Why are they saying that?

Gardner: Well, it's not because I'm not trying. We finally decided with the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that it was time that we put our own ad together and put it out there where people could see it. What people need to understand here, and understand real quick like, is ... John Kerry, as you said, is a charlatan, and he's a liar, he's a, he is absolutely, categorically a traitor [verbal emphasis] because of what he did to our guys that were behind the walls at Hanoi Hilton [POW camp for the youngsters]. But I've got things [?] setting right in front of me and I'm going to email them to you or probably fax them to you when we get all done.

Gardner: One particular instance that I was with John specifically on, where we were in a, picked up a sampan that had, was running our blockade at night. And this sampan, when we put our lights on it, we told it to dung lai, stop. It didn't stop, I had to shoot to stop it. The guy was already reaching for a gun, had already come up above the gunnel [gunwale] with it. When he come up, I peeled his butt right out of the boat; I killed him graveyard dead. Now the bad part of this story is, what haunts me to this day, is the fact that in doing that, I also shot a little boy that was laying in the bottom of the boat, that was probably his son. The bad part of that is, again, here's a father that takes his kid, uses him as a decoy to go run rice to the Viet Cong.

Gardner: So as we pull up along side the boat , I notice that there's two ... there's another .. there's a couple sitting in the front, there's a woman sitting there. We grab her and pull her up on the boat. She's ok, how I missed her I don't know, but thank God I did. But that's it. We ... the boat was sinking because I put too many rounds in it right there ... so as the boat, you know the boat was sinking right there, obviously, we saw this kid, we saw all this rice and everything in the boat ... so we knew that it was going up to this straight [?], the VC stronghold.

Gardner: Now, the sad part of all this whole situation is that John would never, John Kerry would have never had any problem until he brought this all to the fore. I have the, what they call the sit rep, its a situation report that John Kerry, himself, wrote. Now in this report, he not only ... this is fantastic ... that he, he just multiplies everything. Here we got a little 30 foot sampan that's about 30 inches wide ... John Kerry says this sampan had 5,000 pounds of fish, rice, food, and personnel in it when we shot it up. Ah, you know what 5,000 pounds equates up to [?] that's a [garbled] on a 30 foot long 26 or 28 inch wide piece of roof [?] ... ain't gonna happen. So he lied there, number one ... but here's the real crux of what he did. He claims that after we {garbled] shot the one enemy KIA [killed in action], John claims that 4 guys jumped out of the boat and fled to the beach. I just told you, I shot the person in the boat and the only person that got shot in it was the VC in the middle of the boat and the young boy that was laying right under him.

Savage: OK, let's pause right here ... there's a discrepancy between John Kerry's report and your view of it. You actually were the machine gunner and there was one man and one boy, he says there were 4 armed men.

Gardner: Yeah, well, he said actually there were 5 including the guy that I killed, obviously, and that they fled to the beach. Here's the problem with that ... the boats 30 yards from us in the middle of the canal ... number 1, and when I wasted the buddy [?] it stopped right dead in its tracks where it was. Now, unless these guys were the prophet of Jesus Christ then they walked on water to get to shore.

Savage: [chuckles] Ah, Steve, hold on .. no, look, I don't want to laugh about that but I have a very dark sense of humor and you're a funny guy, and you have a way with words that's quite rich ... you have a Victorian use of the language that I sure appreciate. Ah, it's not a laughing matter but in a way it is; it's laughing in the sense that you got a guy running for office that's wearing his Purple Hearts on his sleeve ... and you, who served as his machine gunner, are saying that he's anything but a hero.

Gardner: That's a categorical fact ... and I think that this, this gets even funnier, though. John Kerry's first Purple Heart, that he claims that he got ... I don't know how much military knowledge that you have, but let me tell you something ... to get a Purple Heart, you have to have a casualty report and you have to have a sit rep or situation report on it, OK? ... on any Purple Heart that's given in this United States.

Savage: Well, we just had a medic from the Vietnam Era on who confirms what you're saying and he said that Purple Hearts were not that easily gained, he can't understand how someone got three of them in four months and had not lost so much as a day of duty.

Gardner: It's sad that the lies that John Kerry has put together, is now coming back to bite him by the short hairs, and it's gonna bite him good. Because here is the only Purple Heart we know of in existence that had no casualty report and no sit rep written on it.

Savage: Now which one is that for, was that for the rose thorn or the exploding piece of rice that hit him, or when his butt got knocked against the pilot house in the boat?

Gardner: Let me get to that one too [chuckles] but the main, the first one is the, that first Purple Heart itself. There were no reports written on it because there was never any hostile action. To get a Purple Heart, there has to be hostile action.

Savage: Ah, so even if you accidentally shoot yourself in the foot, you don't get a Purple Heart.

Gardner: No, that's self inflicted wounds

Savage: Let's say you fall down a companionway on a naval ship, you break you arm or blind yourself, no Purple Heart?

Gardner: No Purple Heart, never [emphatically].

Savage: Ok, I didn't know that; I really didn't know that. So in other words, a self-inflicted wound, no matter how sincerely accidental it was, does not qualify you for a Purple Heart.

Gardner: Well, I do not want you to feel uneasy about having me come on here because I understand the, the feelings that are out there and people seem to think that this is my opinion. It's never been my opinion, it's been the absolute facts that I've known, that have been there, but could never substantiate. Now we have it, I've got it in writing and I'll make sure that you get a complete copy of everything.

Savage: Well hold it, now let's do this Steve, this show is heard from everywhere in the country, it's heard from San Francisco to New York and Maine, and I have a very large audience and people know I'm an independent, I'm very conservative but an independent conservative; I am not a registered Republican. But since Kerry is wearing his war record on his sleeve and is making that the centerpiece of his campaign, we are asking about these items that are coming up. So, to satisfy the cynics in the audience, or at least to try to ... your name is Steve Gardner, correct?

Gardner: That is correct.

Savage: And what did you do in Vietnam?

Gardner: I was a first class gunners mate on John Kerry's boat, for the last 2 and one half months of his tour, for the first two and one half months of his tour over there.

Savage: Now hold on, you say you actually served on the same boat with John Kerry, is that correct?

Gardner: that is correct

Savage: Because I'm opening up the San Francisco Chronicle today which says [reading] 'Kerry's best defense may come from his fellow crew mates on his Swift Boat. All surviving members from his boat [verbal emphasis] are supporting his campaign." Do you agree with that statement?

Gardner: Absolutely not. And you know ...

Savage: Well, hold it now, that's in today's San Francisco Chronicle, it was written by, ah, somebody by the name of Zachary Coil [sp?], Chronicle Washington Bureau, so he got that wrong?

Gardner: Yeah, absolutely got it wrong.

Savage: OK ... what was the boat number that you served on and the term, the months of duty please?

Gardner: It was PCF 44 and I served with John from November through January

Savage: Did you get to know John Kerry in that timeframe?

Gardner: Oh, absolutely.

Savage: In addition to the combat, what was he like as a man.

Gardner: The most indecisive boat commander I ever had and we could ne... well, the guys and I talked about this. Now, of course, obviously, they're all in his camp right now so this conversation didn't happen, but I'm telling you, this conversation happened many times. Because John Kerry put our boat in positions sometimes that were very detrimental to our health. Literally not paying attention to what he was doing or doing them on purpose so that he kept protection for himself, [something] and stop the bullet. And any time we were in a crossfire or anytime we were in a firefight that was starting to get heavy, John Kerry would look for a way to get away from it.

Savage: Um huh ... do you believe that John Kerry would make a good Commander in Chief of the United States military?

Gardner: The safest [??] man I was ever around and I had 3 boat officers when I was in Vietnam, on my two tours. I had two excellent boat officers, number one ... both of those gentlemen knew exactly what they were doing, they knew how to control the boat and they did their job just exactly the way they were supposed to. John Kerry had an agenda from the day that he got there and his agenda was to make as much of what he had, as quickly as he could so that he could get away from there without getting shot.

Savage: Alright, hold on ... Steve Gardner, the form 190 would permit, Navy Standard Form 180 rather, would permit the independent public release of Kerry's war records ... and yet Kerry has not yet agreed to sign NSF 180 ... what is he hiding?

Gardner: Nothing! He just puts himself out of business right there. There are so many lies and fabrics of lies in his business that he did with this, that we finally started pulling some of this stuff together. Now, the second Purple Heart that he got, I'm sorry, the first Purple Heart that he got, now I want to set up for this, but I want to read you something ... because it's really strange. You know, one of the guys said something about this, they said "you know, a liar always tells the truth somewhere to his detriment." Well guess what, Kerry's secret started, uh, uh, John Kerry's secret diary that he always carried, here's what he said about the Purple Heart that he supposedly [verbal emphasis] got in the firefight around the PCF 3, and this is just about before they leave to come down the river. It says the [nunion??] blew up a huge bin of rice that they had found and it was assumed, as always, that this was a local stockpile, earmarked to feed the hungry VC as they came down through the delta. He said I got a small piece, he said I got a heap [?] of small grenade in my - and excuse my French, but this is exactly what he said - I got a small piece of small grenade in my ass from one of the rice bin explosions and supplies and then we started to move back to the boat.

Savage: Wait a minute ... he got a Purple Heart from getting hit in the behind with a rice grain?

Gardner: Oh, yeah. Again, this is what you need to understand .. this is by him and Jim Rassmunn ... this is the guy he saved on the boat, supposedly ... and this was written by them. Now, that was cause

Savage: Now hold it, this was from his own diary? How did you get that diary?

Gardner: I didn't get that diary, this was from the book that he wrote.

Savage: Oh, oh, so this is in his own words and he's agreed ... he wrote these words and he's not denying that he wrote, that he got one Purple Heart by getting hit in the butt with a rice grain.

Gardner: Now, I'm gonna read you the next excerpt because its exactly ...

Savage: Oh, no, no, this is important, Steve Gardner, can you stay with us for another few minutes?

Gardner: [something] I can.

Savage: Well Steve Gardner is putting to rest some of the lies that the media is putting out ... on The Savage Nation today, we're making news. The news is that not all Swift Boat Veterans who served with John Kerry support him, we know, for example, that Steve Gardner, who was on the same boat as his machine gunner, does not support John Kerry for these reasons. And if you are listening to his show, and you are an internet active person, I'm going to demand that you record this interview and start talking about it; we've got to get this news out.

[commercial break]

Savage: ... it is shocking, just shocking that Kerry's controversial war record is not being picked up by the major media. They're trying to sweep it under the rug. We know that there is a government-media complex. We know that if George Bush so much as breaks a hang-nail, they imply that it was because he was drunk and slipped on an ice cube that fell out of his drink. ... But something as serious as this, particularly when Kerry is wearing his war record on his sleeve, needs to be talked about, and we are talking about it and on right now The Savage Nation is Steve Gardner, who served on a boat with John Kerry. This is no longer like third, you know, hand, and he was his machine gunner. Steve, welcome back to The Savage Nation.

Gardner: Listen, and here's the thing too, what we need to ... I want to get this in here because I know you've got a very short amount of time. They call it the Cambodian, ah Christmas in Cambodia.

Savage: Yes.

Gardner: This is something that John Kerry has been boasted [had posted???] and all of a sudden dropped, well the reason why he dropped it was he didn't realize ... again, we were going to delve into everything that he did so we could get this out in front of everybody ... we were never in Cambodia ...ever. We were never even within 50 miles [verbal emphasis] of Cambodia. Heh, the killer part of this that John Kerry never got close enough up there to look and see and wonder why? Because they had a LCV [?] set up there already at the apex of this river that was the only entrance to [verbal emphasis] get into Cambodia on the canal ...

Savage: Now Steve, hold it, why does McCain come out and disrespect 190 of you like this? What does that say about John McCain?

Gardner: Well, it tells me that he's just like John Kerry, a total flip-flop ... and just, just it is really sad that a veteran of the Vietnam War could not see what's going on here and just stay out of it. Of course, everybody's gotta get their oar in the water. And that's part of what the problem is with all this going on.

Savage: How come .. has CNN asked you to come on any of their shows? I mean, they're covering the story. Have any of the networks, has the great Tom Brokow, or has Mr. Earring on 60 Minutes asked you to come on the show?

Gardner: Never. [Savage: um hum] Never happen. [Savage: um hum] And I'd go in a heartbeat.

Savage: Yeah, they don't want you ... and even though you're a machine gunner that served on John Kerry's boat; even though you're living and a surviving member of one of his boats, they're pretending that no one is actually living ... I suggest that you not fly in any small planes or visit Ft. Marcy Park, uh, Steve, between now and the election.

Gardner: Heh, no, I just love it.

Savage: [laughing] I'm serious about that because this, this is such a scandal ... I'm shocked at that they can get away with this, that they can cover this up. But then, you know there's nobody in the middle here, who's willing to defend the truth ... I don't know how to put it otherwise. OK, so we've got three Purple Hearts - one was for a piece of shrapnel the size of a rose thorn, the second was when John Kerry was hit by an exploding rice grain, and the third was when his butt got knocked against the pilot house of his boat, is that correct?

Gardner: [laughing] That's right.

Savage: [laughing] No, no, I'm serious, I, I just read that, is that the third Purple Heart when he got knocked against the butt in the pilot house?

Gardner: That's what he's claiming ... see, that's what he's claiming. What he forgot was that he and Rassmann talked about it. He said at one point that Kerry and Rassmann threw grenades into a huge rice cache, they had captured from the Viet Cong, that was isolated for destruction. After tossing the grenades, the two dove for cover. Rassmann escaped the ensuing explosion of rice. Kerry was not as lucky. Thousands of grains stuck to him. He said the result was hilarious and the two men formed a bond [?], where the, upon they went back to the boat to come back down the river.

Savage: That means that if a kid makes popcorn tonight, uh, and it explodes and a piece of popcorn hit him and singed him, that would be an equivalent of the wound that John Kerry received at that time?

Gardner: When he went out to the LST, out in the mouth of the river to , uh, take care of his wound, they pulled rice out of his wound.

Savage: [laughing] Oh, stop it, come on, you're making this up [jokingly]. So who would write up a thing like that for a Purple Heart, Steve, come on.

Gardner: Ford [?]. That's what I said. John Kerry never had inclination or any idea that this was going to come out.

Savage: And by the way, George Bush is attacking you guys as well did you know that

Gardner: I'm sorry?

Savage: George Bush is attacking you guys, the Swift Boat Veterans.

Gardner: I've got no problem with George Bush doing that. Because I don't want him involved in this damn thing anyway; I never wanted him involved from the get go.

Savage: Do you receive any money? Do you receive any money from the Republican National Committee?

Gardner: Categorically do not. Now I'm not telling you that there aren't some Republicans out there who have donated money, but they have no say to anything that goes on in our organization whatsoever. It is a ...

Savage: Well, I don't have a problem with that either, I don't care if a hundred grand was given to you or a hundred and fifty, uh, that's peanuts compared to the 15 million dollars that billionaire financier George Soros gave to these front groups that are attacking President Bush. 15 million dollars? and they're saying the hundred thousand that you got is a foul ball. How's that for fairness, Steve?

Gardner: 15 million dollars? they're gonna have a real problem then, they're gonna have a real problem.

Savage: Now, Steve, Steve, look ... I have a question for you, Steve. I have another big hour in this show ... Can we call you back in the top of the next hour? Are you busy or can you be with us for at least the top of the show?

Gardner: .. at nine o'clock [probably mentioning commitment for the Ingraham show]

Savage: Well, right now it's about 2 minutes to 5 on the west coast, so where are you? I don't know what city you're in.

Gardner: ... right now

Savage: Stay on the line, Steve Gardner, stay on the line, I'm gonna make the commitment right now. From now through Monday, anyone who buys The Enemy Within on my website, I'll give two or three dollars, whatever we can afford off it, to this group. Three dollars, I don't care what it is, I'll give five dollars per book that you purchase. Five dollars from every book, I'm sending to The Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth from michaelsavage.com if you buy the book Now Steve will be with us when we come back, ask the questions that you want.

[station break - the show resumed but without Steve Gardner; evidentially they could not schedule the extension of Steve's time]

TRANSCRIPT ENDS