Posted on 07/22/2004 9:38:52 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
"Yet you won't give up. Forget that you've just been debunked, with a source link...oh no, you bash the link for being too old! Oh yeah, like that diminishes the fact that you are talking out of your a$$!"
Hey genius, you may want to check the story in the link you posted.
You know why I attacked it for being two years old?
Because the senate hadn't passed the bill yet.
And bush couldn't have fired someone for getting in the way of arming pilots BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ARMED PILOTS LAW YET!!! BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU QUOTED IN THE LINK.
DUHHH!!!
Let me state this again in case it's not clear:
You posted a quote with a hyperlink.
The quote wasn't in that article.
The article pertained to the debate on armed pilots because at the time the article was written, the law wasn't passed.
Since the law wasn't passed at the time that article was written, the link had nothing to do with your claim that bush had fired someone for impeding the arming of pilots. Because again, there was no law for that person to be impeding.
Got it???
"GOPA '86 is a *repeal* of gun control in your world?!
The Devil's in the Details...Know the Law!"
Gee, I do know the law...since I've been running a website focusing mainly on the 2nd amendment for the past several years. It sort of comes with the territory.
And it's funny how you accuse me of 'focusing on the negative' and yet when it comes to your turn with the GOPA, the only thing you post about is the machine gun portion.
The facts of the law, if you actually know anything about it, is that the machine gun ban was part of a compromise with a republican controlled congress to repeal (yes, REPEAL) portions of previous laws that were causing serious harm to FFL's and gunowners.
So, contrary to your claims, and proving mine, the armed pilot bill is not the 'first repeal of federal firearms law ever'.
You don't know what you're talking about at all.
Once again, you are incorrect. President Bush signed *TWO* bills into law arming pilots. The one prior to that article was the same bill that nationalized all airport security workers.
You really do talk too much for someone who knows so little though, I will say that much about you.
6 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
Nonsense. GOPA '86 banned new machine guns for private citizens.
That ain't no repeal of federal gun control, kid.
6 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
"Nonsense. GOPA '86 banned new machine guns for private citizens."
I didn't say that it didn't do that.
You said the armed pilots law was the first time federal gun control had been repealed.
It wasn't.
You are ignoring the part the proves you wrong just because it's incovenient for you.
Getting back to your pie in the sky world, let's summarize:
1% of pilots armed after two years: Dismal failure.
Your claim of 3,000 trained pilots "just finishing up": Utter BS.
But I haven't seen you adress that claim again. Gee, I wonder why.
Yes, I do call it a success. A rousing one? A huge one? NO! But unlike 2 years ago we have the law on the books. Now we can slowly start expanding the rights again.
It's taken many decades to get to where we are. It MIGHT takes many decades to undo all the mess. But until you are willing to accept a small victory as a VICTORY we're never going to win the war.
Did I say it's good enough? NO! But getting pilots armed, ANY PILOTS, is still a success by itself.
I'm ignoring nothing. It's you who have failed to post what specific magic *federal* gun control was somehow "repealed" in the GOPA '86 Act that banned new machine guns from civilians.
6 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
Oh, and that article from back in April claims that 2%, i.e. some 2,000+ pilots were already armed by that point, a figure much higher than my old stat of 1,000+ armed already.
6 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
"I'm ignoring nothing. It's you who have failed to post what specific magic *federal* gun control was somehow "repealed" in the GOPA '86 Act that banned new machine guns from civilians."
For a person who isn't ignoring something, you're sure doing a good job of not responding to the debunking of your ludicrous claim that 3,000 pilots were 'just finishing up' their training.
Uh, just read post #48.
Sheesh...
6 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
"President Bush is blocking a vote on the Assault Weapons Ban," said Michael Barnes, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence united with the Million Mom March.
Yep,thousand have already been trained. If you actually read the story in the links I provided, the number give was 2,000. Yay, 2% instead of the 1% you claimed and were happy with.
"thousands of pilots have applied for the program" does not equal "3,000 are just finishing up". Applying doesn't mean finishing up.
And by the simple structure of the training, which is also explained in thearticles I linked to, 48 students per week equals 62 weeks of classes (only one class at a time) that are 'just finishing up'.
So yes, your claims of "3,000 students just finishing up" are
complete
and
utter
bull$*!&
You're obviously not dealing with reality. You have your own little world where the following constitute success:
1. 1 to 2% armed pilot rate out of 100,000 after 2 years.
2. One training facility in the middle of nowhere
3. One class a week limited to 48 pilots
4. Trained military personal who could blow up cities while they're flying fighters get rejected because the TSA doesn't think they should carry a gun.
5. TSA attempts to intimidate pilots by threatening their FAA license if they find 'something bad' in their application process.
6. TSA rules are so restrictive on how and when the pilots may be armed that it's almost worthless to have them armed.
And you consider all those a success.
BTW I went back to the original article you posted. I saw the mention of foy being fired that I missed before. I must have missed it because it was out of context to what you were implying. He was fired over two years ago, before the senate passed their armed pilots bill.
Two years.
And you claim that bush doing something two years ago is important, when in the two years since that firing, NOTHING has been done to make TSA arm pilots faster. The only people who are trying to make it go faster is the senate (again, check my links) because they are threatening to withhold TSA funding unless they actually speed up the training process.
You seem to be getting a lot of satisfaction out of the fact that a bill was passed. Congress did their job. But what matters is what actually is done by the government. The executive branch hasn't done it's job. In the two years since the law was passed, they have dragged their feet in arming airline pilots.
For some reason you don't want to admit that. But it is the cold, hard truth that most people realize.
Not only will I vote for President Bush because of this, but I will bring 6 with me.
Is there any indication of how many of those pilots want to carry a gun?
Well, actually, the D's are right on this one.
Bush is playing politics with this one...and he should. He doesn't want to upset the womens vote (sadly, usually for gun control), but knows he'll lose Conservatives if he actually extends the ban.
So, he says he'll sign it, then gets congress not to pass it.
I assure you 100% that's what he's doing. Might be a little sneaky, but that's politics. Learn to live with it.
If these noodles keep it up, they might get me to vote for Bush with a bit more enthusiasm, and they might even get Mrs. B to vote Bush instead of 3rd party conservative.
You aren't paying attention. The very link that I gave you shows that *everyone* who has applied will finish their training by October 1 of this year.
Here it is, again:
5 Full Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
this has been Bush's strategy all along (which some Freepers have failed to understand):
He's quitely killing this bill. That poll (It's probably a liberal one true, but it says the vast majority of Americans don't want assault weapons. So Bush has come out on their side, while he quitely kills the bill. Not quite smashmouth politics, but we'll get the bill killed.
Imagine if a terrorist attack is stopped BECAUSE of an armed pilot.
You still aren't getting it. There were TWO, count them, two bills that President Bush signed into law to arm pilots.
Look at the part of your own quote above that I underlined.
It's obvious from those underlined words that you only know of *one* bill that armed pilots, the bill that was signed into law by a frustrated President Bush and passed by a frsutrated Congress because of the slow implementation of the earlier, first law to arm pilots.
But here is the actual chronology:
1. 9/11
2. the first bill arming pilots and nationalizing airport security workers is signed into law
3. President Bush orders Norm Mineta to fire DOT #2 Magaw
4. DOT reverses its "no guns" policy and begins its "guns in the cockpit" policy
5. Congress and President Bush are so frustrated by the slow implementation of arming pilots that they passed into law the 2nd bill to arm pilots
6. Now some 2,000+ pilots are flying with firearms, and the thousands more that are enrolled (see above link) will all finish their training by October 1 of this year.
And it wasn't anyone name "foy" being fired. Loy replaced Magaw. Loy has armed our pilots. Loy is on our side. It was *Magaw* who got fired for opposing guns in the cockpit, but you are so much of an ingrate, and so uninformed on 2nd Amendment issues, that you don't even know to support President Bush for firing Magaw and Loy for arming our pilots.
5 Full Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
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