New Wrangle Over Kennewick (Man) Bones

BBC ^ | 7-21-2004 | Paul Rincon

[blam]

"The 9,300-year-old skeleton is among the most complete specimens of its period known from the Americas. "

What about 9,400 year old Spirit Cave Man...The oldest mummy in the Americas?

[blam]

GGG Ping.

[LisaFab]

Pre-Columbian bump.

[steplock]

Wasn't the real reason for the battle AGAINST the scientist that this appears to be the skeleton of a CAUCASIAN and not a mongolian (Amer Indian origins)?

[jtminton]

I went to high school with the guys that found Kennewick man. They were drunk and trying to sneak into the hydroplane races when they found him.

[pabianice]

"Native Americans" are desperately trying to hide what has become known to be true in the past 20 years: they are not the first Americans. Rather, they are descended from a later migration that drove to extinction the people of earlier waves, including that of Kennewick Man's people.

The truth is outing and they can't stand it.

[FormerLib]

DNA tests must be performed to determine if the tribes even have jurisdiction.

Their greatest fear, of course, is that it will be determined that they do not.

[Alas Babylon!]

"Nagpra needs to be strengthened so that it fulfils Congress' original intent, which was to protect tribal burials and return sacred items to the tribes," said Armand Minthorn, Umatilla board of trustees member.

But the bones of Kennewick Man are no more your ancestors' than bones in Churchyards in Olde England. What strengthening of the law will allow a tribe to posses remains determined not to be of that tribe, or any living Native Americans? Will your new law prevent discovery of this? Simply claim any remain found as yours, simply because they're found on your ancestral lands? Was that truly Congress's intent? I doubt it.

The fight over Kennewick man is over, in regards to NAGPRA. He is NOT your ancestor. Thus neither the law, nor its intent, were violated.

[blam]

Here's the scoop from the man who did most of the work on Kennewick Man, James Chatters:

Kennewick Man (Encounter With An Ancestor)

"The man lacks definitive characteristics of the classic mongoloid stock to which modern Native Americans belong. The skull is dolichocranic (cranial index 73.8) rather than brachycranic, the face narrow and prognathous rather than broad and flat. Cheek bones recede slightly and lack an inferior zygomatic projection; the lower rim of the orbit is even with the upper. Other features are a long, broad nose that projects markedly from the face and high, round orbits. The mandible is v-shaped,with a pronounced, deep chin. Many of these characteristics are definitive of modern-day caucasoid peoples, while others, such as the orbits are typical of neither race. Dental characteristics fit Turner's (1983) Sundadont pattern, indicating possible relationship to south Asian peoples."

[RonF]

My guess is that what the tribes will want is a presumption written into law that any remains dating to before Europeans settled into the U.S. are those of existing tribes and thus must be turned over to them. Up to this point, the burden has been on the Native Americans to prove that a given set of remains are related to them. That couldn't be done in this case. A change as I outline above will put the burden on non-Native Americans to prove that the remains are NOT those of ancestors of Native American tribes, while simultaneously taking away from them their ability to use the methods that they would need to establish such proof.

[SunkenCiv]

thanks Blam!

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.

[LibertyThug]

Kennewick Man Bump

[Willie Green]

However, legal representatives for the scientists are still locked in discussions with the US Justice Department over what the researchers are allowed to do with the bones.

Hmmmmm....
The Justice Dept. lost in court, but they're still wasting taxpayers' money on this?
Sounds like it's time for Ashcroft to toss somebody's butt out onto the street.

[Question_Assumptions]

Morphologically "caucasian-like" but probably not genetically caucasian. The Ainu of Japan look "caucasian" but they are genetically Asian. They have the technology to do gene testing, which is exactly what is being blocked here. There are isolated groups of American Indians with a DNA type that is only found in Europe. If I had to guess, I'd say that there were probably several migrations of humans to the Americans before the ancestors of the current Indians got here -- most from various parts of Asia and possibly other migrations from Europe. One needs to be careful when playing the "My people where here first!" game.

What makes this troubling to some is that there is a mythology that only Europeans conquer and murder but the archaeological record shows otherwise. It's pretty standard human behavior around the world and the noble and peaceful savage is a myth.

[DumpsterDiver]

It added that the Umatilla's board of trustees would begin working with other Native American tribes on a strategy to amend the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (Nagpra), the law enacted in 1990 to protect tribal burials.

The tribes should first have to prove that the remains are actually those of a "native American" before being able to lay claim to anything.

The bones of Kennewick Man are currently held at the Burke Museum in Seattle.

Someone needs to steal those bones, run the damn tests and get it over with. This whole thing has gone beyond being ridiculous.

[Jack Black]

Perhaps it's now the "Creation Science" types in Justice who are trying to protect their sacred beliefs. After all if scientific dating shows the skull is 9,000 years old it sort of bumps up against the Biblical Fundamentalists with there 6,000 year old Earth theory. Anyone know if Ashcroft is a "young Earth" devotee?

[Publius6961]

Why should the justice department have any say whatsoever?
Who can be contacted to challenge these delusional leeches?

[Varda]

I believe that the population Kennewick man comes from probably is an ancestor of modern day Indians whose DNA suggests their population split from Asia more than 10,000 years ago. Hopefully the fight will end with DNA samples being taken. Personally I would like to see the race arguments taken out of this. The population of humans he comes from is so old, he is probably kin to all Eurasians, therefore his story is part of the ancestral tale of nearly all Americans.

As for his ethnic affiliation, this is from the official report done by Powell and Rose.

" The question of "Caucasoid" affinities for the Kennewick remains can be addressed, depending on how the term "Caucasoid" is defined. In the strictest sense, this refers to populations of western and southwest Eurasia-- peoples that live or lived in what is now Europe, the near East, and India. When defined in this way, Kennewick is clearly not a Caucasoid. Although one European group, Zalavar (1/25 = 4%) was included among the five nearest "neighbors" to Kennewick (Tables 7 - 12), the majority of nearest neighbors are from Polynesia (16/25 = 64%) and east Asia (24%). The Ainu, which we have described as "east Asian", occur as a nearest neighbor three times (12%), while Native Americans occur as neighbors just twice (8%). Although Kennewick exhibits some features that typically (but not exclusively) occur in modern American Whites (Caucasoids), these same features also occur in moderate to high frequency among Polynesian populations (Gill 1986). If the Ainu are considered to be "Caucasoids," as they were first described in 19th-century anthropological literature, this might explain reports of "Caucasoid" features in the Kennewick skull. However, we follow Brace and Hunt (1990) and Turner (1990) in viewing the Ainu as a southeast Asian population derived from early Jomon peoples of Japan, who have their closest biological affinity with south Asians rather than western Eurasian peoples. Thus Kennewick appears to have strongest morphological affinities with populations in Polynesia and southern Asia, and not with American Indians or Europeans in the reference samples." http://www.cr.nps.gov/aad/kennewick/powell_rose.htm

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

It's pretty standard human behavior around the world and the noble and peaceful savage is a myth.

Well duh!

The idea was invented in france you know and promoted by fops who wouldn't survive a season in the Americas. They were secretly envious of those who could so they turned us into fluffy sweet bunnies.

It is a toss up over whither this theory or the murderous blood thirsty animal who of course deserved to be crushed annoys me more.

Of course now we have two sides with emotional, political and monetary investment in proving their "story" right. Foolishly they think that one outcome or the other will change life as they know it. It won't. But they are standing in the way of the rest of us learning things.

One needs to be careful when playing the "My people where here first!" game.

One also needs to be careful with "who was here second." I doubt there were migration per say from "Europe" but a splitting up of a group where one goes west and ends up in Europe and one smaller group goes east and ends up in China and the Americas, that is quite possible.

For pete's sake, as long as we are not talking the destruction of the bones let them be tested.

[steplock]

One needs to be careful when playing the "My people where here first!" game

I personally don't care who got where - but there is a tribe in Argentina or Chile in the hills that is not mongoloid and is traceable back around 10k years up through South/Central America

I always figured a polynesian background for the original ancestors - the true Incas (royalty) were near 6 foot tall - but the Spanish Conquistadores killed everyone over 5 foot tall. That left the current central/south american indian