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Paul Johnson Beheading Video (Graphic)
Politrix ^ | 20 Jul 04 | I got the rope

Posted on 07/20/2004 6:19:37 PM PDT by I got the rope

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To: PigRigger

bttt


81 posted on 09/21/2004 4:53:29 AM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: PigRigger

So what, exactly, do you propose? Baptizing every Muslim in the hope that in finding Jesus they will repent and be saved? BS. It won't happen--ever. You are using your religion as a comparative source for something that doesn't apply to religion, essentially. Sure, these men operate under the guise of serving Allah. However, the "good guys" are not made up entirely of Bible thumping Christians who enjoy elevating themselves above the rest of the world under their OWN guise of morality and justice, modesty and truth. My problem seems to be that if they are taking the "godly" defense, so are you. We are not fighting this battle on a Christian battlefield, but a Western one, and even more specifically, an AMERICAN one. Hiding behind a man-made and man-imposed set of beliefs and rules is what you condemn them for....yet you are doing it yourself. I agree that freedom is cherished most by people in our country, however, you fail to mention them in the AMERICAN sense... but rather a Billy Graham-esque viewpoint which does more to glorify your religion than it does to demonize theirs. The WESTERN ideals are not necessarily CHRISTIAN ideals, proven so because there are many people living fruitful and happy lives in the Western world who are not Christian.

Also let me clarify. I am neither Muslim nor Christian. I do not subscribe to any set of beliefs that puts restrictions on arbitrary things in order to create meaning (such as fasting, original sin, meatless Fridays, and the like from ANY religion). Meaning for me comes from the heart, which, if it is pure, is a one way ticket to heaven or whatever it is that lies ahead.

I had only come across this website researching the latest beheading information. While these images provoke anger, rage, and even hate and want of violence inside of me, to resort to that state of mind is, to me, as bad as being one of the terrorists yourself. It is sad, it is a shame, but even if you kill every Muslim in the world it won't do any good. Violence is violence is violence...no matter who commits it. My worry is that those that are not as informed, or intellectual, will take these messages put forth by many of the posts I have read on this site to heart, and foster the growth of arrogance and hate without understanding. There have been SEVERAL hate crimes committed just in my area against Middle Easterners...and for no reason. Do they get the same, if any, coverage as a hate crime related to a member of another group? No! It's because of the collective mentality all Americans have adopted where hating what you don't understand because the news and everyone around you tells you to is the norm. I am in a college environment now (a senior thank you very much! here I come world!), and you would be extremely surprised how many of our youth that will be entering the workforce and society soon have been programmed to form an analogy between the word Muslim and the word Terrorist, the world Islam and the word HATE. If Jesus is your God then you should know...an eye for an eye is not the answer, and interpreted correctly, connotates that hating those that hate you is as immoral as any one of the myriad of sins that occur daily.

My question, then...
Are you defining this epic battle in terms of Christianity or American patriotism? Do you use your religion to supplement your belief in peace or justify your submission to hate? Do you feel militant Islam is a direct attack on Christianity, or on Americans collectively? And does Christianity define the Western world for you??


82 posted on 09/21/2004 11:46:08 AM PDT by Sarah622
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To: Sarah622
Sarah we are in the early stages of a battle between cultures. It has been repeated many times over the past 1400 years between the same combatants (look to history to see what is to come). The west, represented by judeao-christian values, vs. Islamic fascism. The West embraces freedom and equality and stands in complete contradiction to beliefs espoused by those that follow Islamic Sharia law.

What you fail to see is that it is not America alone that is at war, it is any part of the world that embraces the ideals of freedom and equality. Look where violence is found in the world today - Look at who is attacking - Listen to what they say!

Open your eyes to the reality we face; there is evil in the world and it must be confronted. You will not be able escape its grasp; it will find you if you attempt to ignore it or run from it.

War sucks, killing sucks, people dieing sucks. It is not something I embrace or worship - I understand the ugliness of it. However, I'm old enough to understand the ugliness of what happens when evil is not confronted early enough. Over 20,000,000 people died in WWII because the world was afraid to take action when it could. We are facing a similar time in history today.

As to what will become of Islam itself; that is the choice of those who practice it. If they wish to see it crushed in war they will continue their attempt to conquer other lands and slaughter unbelievers. That battle will be joined, and they will be defeated. If the Muslims decide to reform their religion and live in peace with their neighbors peace can be had. At this time I see no indication that peace is possible. I hope I am wrong, but recent history does not dictate such optimism.

I am a Christian, I'd rather live in peace with my fellow man. I pray that God might spare us from what appears to be inevitable. I have children younger than you, two girls. I understand what life would be like for them if they lived in an Islamic country ruled by Sharia Law. I will die before allowing my children, my country and my beliefs to be subjugated to such an institution.

It is up to the Muslims themselves to save their religion and their culture. It is their obligation to do something now if they wish it to flourish and live side by side with the other great religions of the world. It is problem brought on by their own culture that they must address before we in the west do.

I am not a man of hate, I cry at what I see happening around the world. I am conservative, I am an intelligent, understanding and loving man who wishes to do right by all. I respect anyone who respects my individual rights. I wish that reason and respect would prevail but I know we must prepare for the worst.

I do not say things to scare you, I say them because history has taught many times to expect what is likely to come.

You see my writings coming from hatred toward Muslims, it does not. It comes from me seeing innocents being massacred because we as world allow it. What we see today will look like child's play if Islamic Fascism is not stopped in its infancy. Because if it is allowed to grow and spread; millions upon millions will die in its wake. Finally Your Questions:

Are you defining this epic battle in terms of Christianity or American patriotism?

I am defining the battle as cultural. Much of the American culture (and the western world) is derived from Judeao-Christion beliefs, In the Middle East it is defined by Islam. There is no way to completely remove religion from culture.

Do you use your religion to supplement your belief in peace or justify your submission to hate?

Neither. My religion dictates one to be humble, merciful loving, and forgiving. It also expresses that evil should not be embraced, nor ignored, when confronted by it. I pray for my enemy, I pray for peace, but I will not ignore their actions and desires.

Do you feel militant Islam is a direct attack on Christianity, or on Americans collectively?

It is a direct attack on all nonbelievers of Islam. Militant Islam attacks all non-Islamic religions, as well as, other Muslims who don't adopt the right interpretation. It is the enemy of all nations who don't follow its tenants. It is the enemy of freedom and equality; it is fascism pure and simple. The US is singled out because it is the perceived leader of the Western world. If America was an Islamic state practicing Sharia law they wouldn't be attacking us would they?

And does Christianity define the Western world for you??No, not entirely. Judeao-Christian values attached to individual freedoms, equality, and human rights do.

I wish you well in your studies.
83 posted on 09/21/2004 2:09:06 PM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: Sarah622
Sarah - Some questions for you.

If, as I perceive correctly from your writings, indicate followers of Fundamentalist Islam have hijacked Islam. If so, why do we not see average Muslims fighting to take it back?

In fact, we see just the opposite. Militant Islam is growing in popularity and is on the move.

The easy answer is that the west has caused this, but an intelligent person knows that is not true - that is just an excuse to avoid the examination of the question itself.

What do you believe to be the solution if a large proportion of Muslims take the Koran literally and refuse to interpret it symbolically? How do you avoid violence in this situation?

This may seem harsh, but sometimes violence, in all its ugly and detestable form, is the only option available to combat and defeat scourges such as these. Submission is not an option.

If one does not act now, how many have to die before force is used to stop it?

How many might still be alive today if the free European nations and America confronted Hitler after he invaded the Rhineland?

The warnings were ignored than, the same warnings are arising and being ignored today. The real question is, as I see it, are we listening to history's call or are we doomed to repeat it?
84 posted on 09/21/2004 2:58:30 PM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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Comment #86 Removed by Moderator

To: lehands

Darling, we are in Iraq right now so that you can hold true to your beliefs. Our children and yours will die if we pull out of Iraq and allow the terrorists to attack here as they have previously done before. I know it is easier to close your eyes, put your hands over your ears and want to pretend that everything is okay and the bad guys will leave you alone but I'm afraid it only happens in the movies. This is real life. I'm sure that those they were in the twin towers, on the planes and at the penagon too wished they could close their eyes, put their hands over their ears and wish it to go away but it didn't. It is best that you leave it to the the adults to handle this. Hopefully, in time, you too will grow up to be an adult and understand the responsiblities that go with it.


87 posted on 09/21/2004 6:57:09 PM PDT by Two-Bits (I am voting in memory for those that can not vote since 9/11! Vote George W Bush)
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To: lehands
You people must be joking. I suppose Jesus promoted the 'eye for an eye' theory.....oh, hang on, no He didn't! You people who call yourself christians are as bad as these fundamentalist muslims, because you are racists who condone the atrocities committed by your idiot 'c' level presidents. Hypocrites all. Ask yourselves this: Why are we even in Iraq? Your children are dying for Dubya's lies and you are happy about this??!!!

Your going to come here and try to give us a lesson on the bible. PLEASE...

88 posted on 09/21/2004 7:00:58 PM PDT by I got the rope (HEY KERRY...I'M AN ON-BRINGER)
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