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To: Sam the Sham

"But the Civil Rights movement was the logical outcome of the New Deal."

The "Civil Rights movement" may have been the logical outcome of the "New Deal". But I don't get how any movement that embraced the concept of total governmental control of every aspect of our lives, such as Communism, Fascism, or the "New Deal", could by any stretch of the imagination be labeled a force for individual rights and freedom.

The people who might have attended the DAR concert had every right to refuse to participate in this exclusionary activity of a PRIVATE organization by NOT ATTENDING, or staging their own concert WITH Marion Anderson. Today's blacks need to appreciate, as Booker T. Washington did, that you can't have individual freedom and liberty without private property rights.

And, yes, Truman did the right thing by integrating the military. But even Roosevelt, the Democrats' demigod, didn't go that far.

"A conservative, night-watchman state would never have instituted the Voting Rights Act or what amounted to upending the traditional social hierarchy of an entire culture."

The fact is the Voting Rights Act was passed with the majority of the Republicans supporting it and the majority of the Democrats opposing it. The notion that Democrats were responsible for the success of the "Civil Rights movement" is the biggest case of national historical amnesia in existence! That is, excepting the national historical amnesia concerning the fact that the Republicans were also responsible the Emancipation Proclamation!

"Successive GOP administrations did not even pass an anti-lynching law."

The notion of passing a special anti-lynching law as some sort of litmus test of support of "Civil Rights" is patently ridiculous, on a par with "Hate Crime" legislation. The law already identified MURDER ITSELF as a heinous crime. Besides, all of the lynching was happening in the south, which was the land of the Democrats!

Your positions are further examples of how woefully ignorant today's Americans generally, and blacks specifically, are of their own history.


24 posted on 07/12/2004 10:13:17 AM PDT by vanmorrison
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To: vanmorrison
"Successive GOP administrations did not even pass an anti-lynching law."

The notion of passing a special anti-lynching law as some sort of litmus test of support of "Civil Rights" is patently ridiculous, on a par with "Hate Crime" legislation. The law already identified MURDER ITSELF as a heinous crime. Besides, all of the lynching was happening in the south, which was the land of the Democrats!

Your positions are further examples of how woefully ignorant today's Americans generally, and blacks specifically, are of their own history.

Your responses are indicative only of your own ignorance. The entire point of lynching was the total complicity of local law enforcement in the act and its total acceptance as something of a carnival by white southern society. The only way to stop it, as blacks realized, was to federalize the crime and take it completely out of the hands of local law enforcement. The GOP, despite massive black support, would not even do that.

The "Civil Rights movement" may have been the logical outcome of the "New Deal". But I don't get how any movement that embraced the concept of total governmental control of every aspect of our lives, such as Communism, Fascism, or the "New Deal", could by any stretch of the imagination be labeled a force for individual rights and freedom.

Your equation of FDR with Hitler and Stalin is rather delusional and best ignored.

The people who might have attended the DAR concert had every right to refuse to participate in this exclusionary activity of a PRIVATE organization by NOT ATTENDING, or staging their own concert WITH Marion Anderson. Today's blacks need to appreciate, as Booker T. Washington did, that you can't have individual freedom and liberty without private property rights.

Booker T Washington hoped that if blacks abandoned all hope of legal equality that whites would simply let them live in peace. He hoped that blacks could be left to accumulate prosperity by whites. The flames that devoured the middle class black communities of Rosewood and Tulsa showed that he was wrong. Without the physical protection of the law, without legal equality, without civil rights, without a firm committment by the federal government to protect and defend those rights, whatever any minority builds will be Kristallnachted to the ground.

"A conservative, night-watchman state would never have instituted the Voting Rights Act or what amounted to upending the traditional social hierarchy of an entire culture."

The fact is the Voting Rights Act was passed with the majority of the Republicans supporting it and the majority of the Democrats opposing it. The notion that Democrats were responsible for the success of the "Civil Rights movement" is the biggest case of national historical amnesia in existence! That is, excepting the national historical amnesia concerning the fact that the Republicans were also responsible the Emancipation Proclamation!

Republicans of the Rockefeller, Javits, Brooke, Drinan, Margaret Chase Smith variety supported it. But if you bothered to check back issues of National Review (and I won't even go into Human Events and the John Birchers) movement conservatives did not. Quite simply, things like the Voting Rights Act or the Civil Rights Act which up ended the traditional hierarchy of an entire culture were gross violations of conservative, night watchman state principles. But in the context of the Cold War, Jim Crow was a tremendous propaganda embarassment for the US so most conservatives grudgingly accepted it.

Try to be more knowledgeable.


27 posted on 07/12/2004 10:47:18 AM PDT by Sam the Sham
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