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To: OpusatFR
Trust the UN! HAH! I wouldn't trust the UN for my benefit, for anything. Such a controlling organization, settling it's claws softly into all major countries, moving in their troops, replacing American military training with that of UN training. We don't need A UNITED NATIONS, we have A UNITED STATES!

And just what prey tell would the UN even bother doing for IRELAND! The IRISH/SCOTTISH have needed someone to fight on their behalf before most of the UN men/women were even born!

57 posted on 06/25/2004 3:09:24 PM PDT by CourtneyLeigh (Why can't all of America be Commonwealth?)
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To: CourtneyLeigh

And I am kind of partial to the New American Standard Version myself.


58 posted on 06/25/2004 3:11:20 PM PDT by Mark17
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To: CourtneyLeigh

Right there. There is a United States that manages to keep the terrorists at bay, and I take very personally insults to our sitting President. I also take very personally the sort of bull slung around Europe that they may hate the President but like the People.

We are the People, and We elect the President. This isn't a Constitional Monarchy or a Commonwealth, God forbid.

To insult the President is to insult us.


65 posted on 06/25/2004 3:16:52 PM PDT by OpusatFR (Vote Kerry if you want to commit national suicide)
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To: CourtneyLeigh
And just what prey tell would the UN even bother doing for IRELAND! The IRISH/SCOTTISH have needed someone to fight on their behalf before most of the UN men/women were even born!

Oh, now the Scottish are victims of "English occupation." Where did you learn your "history?"

The Angles came to the island of Great Britain in the "fifth century." They settled along the east coast of that island including the east of what we today know as England and the southeast of what we today call Scotland. In other words, the Angles (from whose name the word "English" comes) were in "Scotland" a hundred years before the Scots originally invaded (and "raped" and "blasphemed" and "desecrated" and all that stuff mystical nationalists hate so much) "Scotland."

When the Normans invaded (William, Duke of Normandy claiming a legitimate right to the English throne) they were no more wanted in England than in Scotland or Wales or Ireland. It was many decades--perhaps even centuries--before a common "English" identity developed. Some Anglo-Saxons actually escaped into Scotland after the Conquest.

In those pre-national days every king in an area would want to be recognized as overlord to any other kings in the neighborhood. It was inevitable that someone would want to unite the entire island of Great Britain under one king (as Connaught had done in Ireland). The Norman English kings would from time to time assert their overlordship of Scotland. But it was not until a dispute over the throne, in which one of the disputants appealed to the English King for support (which was given in exchange for recognition as overlord) that the famous events of the William Wallace/Robert Bruce era took place. And Scotland plotted against England just as England plotted against Scotland (France was a traditional ally). In 1513 Scotland invaded England and their king (who led the invasion) was killed. Has anyone ever heard of that little battle, huh? No . . . I didn't think so.

Scotland was always a bicultural nation (Scots and Picts in the north, Angles and Britons in the south), and each party had its own intrigues. When the Protestant Reformation hit Scotland (after the English Reformation) it was only natural that the Protestant Lowland Scots would identify with the English just as the Catholic Highland Scots identified with the French. Besides, Elizabeth of England and Mary of Scotland were actually related, remember? And the evil Tudors who ruled England and "raped" everyone else during this period were actually a WELSH house! Does no one remember that?

Anyway, when Elizabeth executed Mary she didn't take over Scotland but put young James VI on the Scottish throne. And when she died in 1603 with no children (the "virgin queen" and all that) James VI inherited the English throne as well. So far as I know, James chose to move to London and rule both Kingdoms as James I of England. He could have stayed in Edinburgh, couldn't he? At any rate, England and Scotland were separate kingdoms under one Stewart King (with the single exception of the Cromwell era, when the two kingdoms were forcibly united by Oliver Cromwell--who was supported by the Scots Protestants and opposed by the Highland Catholics). After the Stewart Restoration the two kingdoms were separated again.

It was not until 1707 (during the Reign of Queen Ann, the last sovereign of the SCOTS House of Stewart) that the Scottish parliament voted to dissolve (granted, against the wishes of the majority of the people in Scotland) and united the two countries as one with its capital in London.

Even the Jacobite rebellions and activities of Rob Roy were not, as is popularly thought, fights for Scottish independence. The Jacobites merely wanted to retain the Stewarts on the throne. The Catholic Highlanders wanted this because after the death of Queen Ann all remaining Stewarts were Catholics. They were opposed not only by the English but by the Protestant Lowland Scots as well. The outlawing of the bagpipes, tartans, Scots Gaelic, etc., were not aimed at a burgeoning "nationalist" or independence movement but at support for a rival royal house for the British throne.

Unlike Scotland, Ireland really was an English/British colony until 1801, when it was admitted to the United Kingdom.

And now today Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland each has its own parliament/assembly while England alone remains an abstract part of "Britain." Scottish and Welsh MP's can vote in their own parliament/assembly and then vote in Westminster and influence the governance of England. The English cannot do this, since they have only Westminster, which is a British, not an English parliament.

If any people has suffered by being subsumed into "Great Britain" it is not the Irish, Welsh, or Scots, but the English, who have been completely absorbed into the "British" identity while the other UK countries have both national and British identities.

Please learn a little history.

100 posted on 06/25/2004 4:03:12 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hinneh, mah tov umah na`im shevet 'achim gam-yachad!)
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