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Yes, yes, but which evidence do you consider overwhelming that homosexuals are caused by one or more genes? You did make that statement. Will you withdraw it?

One of the most compelling arguments for me would be the following on male siblings:

If one was homosexual then the chance of their sibling being homosexual was:

Fifty two percent for their identical twin, who shared 100% of the same genes. This result was essentially identical to the separated identical twin studies described below. It shows that if one identical male twin is gay, then the other twin will probably also be gay -- whether raised in the same family or raised by different families.

Twenty-two percent for their non-identical twin; they share half of the same genes

About 10% for adopted or non-twin brothers; they share none to half of the same genes.

Now, let me pose the same question to you that I've posed to others on this thread:

Why would a young adult that hasn't been exposed to the bad behavior, that hasn't been abused, that's had the best environment, that hasn't had any of the behavioral reasons to be gay, be gay anyway?

Fifty two percent for their identical twin, who shared 100% of the same genes.

52% doesn't get it, especially when both were raised in the same household.

It shows that if one identical male twin is gay, then the other twin will probably also be gay -- whether raised in the same family or raised by different families.

Raised by different families is hardly controlling. A portion of those families could certainly produce the same causes to turn a child to homosexual identity crisis, especially if it is a "foster home" of the kind used by child welfare agencies.

But the percentages are indicative. I've seen much smaller percentages from different studies. But it should be much higher if genetically caused. Interestingly enough, the sibling studies are the foremost presented evidence that homosexuality is not genetic.

Actually, the overwhelming evidence is that after, at the very least, 400 generations, we have about the same amount of homosexuality with us today. Homosexuals tend to avoid heterosexual contact and so don't reproduce, except minimally.

Genetically, less than 400 generations, even if some homosexuals overcame their aversion and reproduced, is plenty of time to wipe the practice from the human race.

But, from the foundation of the controversy, homosexuality is antithetical to the very paradigm of mammalian architecture on Earth. The only instances of "homosexual" behavior in animals is when the animals in question are in a highly stressful and atypical environment, or they "practice", much like a dog humping your leg.

I just can't see the overwhelmingness of it, unless it is what one wants to believe. Is that what you want to believe?

Why would a kid whose parents didn't lie, wasn't exposed to others who lied, wasn't lied to as a child, becomea liar?

Some people have certain temptations, some have other temptations. For some people, it's easy not to lie, but hard not to fantasize about sex all the time. Some people can't speak without lying.

Some people used to lie, decided it was wrong, and stopped. Some people had a hard time with sexual promiscuity, decided it was wrong or dangerous, and stopped.

Similarly, some people - for various reasons - have difficulty with SSAD - Same Sex Attraction Disorder. Some people consciously choose to engage in same sex acts, some choose to engage in bisexual acts. Others just find themselves drawn to such sexual behavior, for many reasons.

I know a woman friend years ago (early 80s) who confided in me that at one time in her life she had engaged in "three ways" with a man and another woman. I was shocked (not ever having hung around with people who did that kind of thing). This woman was at that time (and still is, AFAIK) happily married to a man. When I asked her how could she do such a thing, she said: "An orgasm is an orgasm, however you get it."

A lot of activities are shocking or hard to do the first or second time, but if a person keeps indulging or engaging in them, they become habituated - especially if there is some kind of gratification or pleasure.

For instance, smoking. I started smoking when I was 12 or 13. It was horrible, it made me sick, nauseated, headachey, but gosh! I persevered. Within a few months I was smoking unfiltered Camels with the best of them.

But now? You couldn't pay me enough money to smoke a cigarrette. I decided it was wrong for me, unhealthy, and so on, and I quit.