Livianne's Top Four Commandments (as revealed on this thread)...There are likely more, but I haven't uncorked her entire moral code yet:
(1) Thou shalt not judge (she said judgmentally).
Citation: "I could SWEAR good Christians didn't judge others." (post 251) Judging is "pretty unChristian to me." (post 217)
Comment: Actually, Jesus did tell people to judge after telling others not to judge. He told them to Judge righteously and to judge them "by their fruit." We are not to judge folks' motivations (we don't know them) and we are not to judge on surface issues like skin color. Otherwise, the Bible is full of passages about discernment.
(2) "Outsiders" shalt not judge locals' behavior.
Comment: Raoul Wallenberg, a Swedish diplomat and an "outsider" to both Hungary where he was assigned and to the Nazis, did not simply oppose the Holocaust. He opposed all kinds of levels of treatment (some involved dignity issues) aimed at Jews. Wallenberg, an outsider, stood up to the Nazis on many different "fronts" involving multiple issues.
(3) "I don't want appropriate behavior for everyone defined by just one or two people." (Post 233)
Comment: Have you told Jesus about this standard of yours? Was He offended by this sovereign decision of yours that limits His role in defining appropriate behavior for everyone?
(3a) See also Post 210: "I do have an interest in keeping appropriate behavior from being defined by one or two people with particularly narrow views." So an offshoot Commandment would be: "Only those with particularly broad views should attempt to participate in defining appropriate behavior...I mean, yeah, we'll tolerate your annoying moral voice, but our subjective eval of your views as 'narrow' automatically boots you from the behavior definition committee."
(4) "You can tell people what they did is immoral all you want, so long as you let them walk away when they feel like it."
Comment: What? I'm going to handcuff & hold 'em as moral hostages otherwise?
Translation: "Let them walk away" really means two things: (1) "Letting them walk..." means establishing a pretty high bar for yielding Accountability. Accountability = only local group accountability; individuals, particularly narrow-minded individuals who live beyond the imaginary concentric circle, are excluded from attempting to yield one-on-one accountability; and (2) "Let them walk away" is another way of saying "Live and let live."
_I_ didn't say thou shalt not judge, I just said I thought you weren't sposed to. And I was corrected - I never read the New Testament, so I do admit I was incorrect about that as a point of biblical reference. However, I still stand by the fact that making an overall judgement about a person based on this one event which harmed nobody is not a very nice thing for ANYONE to do, Christian or otherwise. BUT - that isn't an absolute standard, it's a guideline - I don't judge people on one piece of information, as you obviously do, unless that one piece of information is absolutely damning, like they killed someone and hacked them to bits. This doesn't fall in that category.
(2) "Outsiders" shalt not judge locals' behavior. Comment: Raoul Wallenberg, a Swedish diplomat and an "outsider" to both Hungary where he was assigned and to the Nazis, did not simply oppose the Holocaust. He opposed all kinds of levels of treatment (some involved dignity issues) aimed at Jews. Wallenberg, an outsider, stood up to the Nazis on many different "fronts" involving multiple issues.
your selective quoting is clever, but also manipulative and a clear sign of someone who is not willing to debate an issue head on. I didn't say outsiders shall not judge locals behavior, I said that people outside a community don't get to decide FOR the community if the actions of a person or persons within that community deserve censure. Now, before you get ridiculous, I do not extend this to law breaking - so theft, murder, rape, these things can be judged by everyone because they are codified into our laws. Perhaps you assign the exact same standards to all situations, but rational people do not. As for your Wallenberg point, it was idiotic the first time and it's just getting worse. I am at this point beginning to find offensive your insistence on linking the mass murder six million Jews as well as six million other people from various walks of life (Gypsy, Jehovah's Witness, Homosexual, Mentally Ill, etc) with 20 teachers going to see a burlesque show.
3) "I don't want appropriate behavior for everyone defined by just one or two people." (Post 233) Comment: Have you told Jesus about this standard of yours? Was He offended by this sovereign decision of yours that limits His role in defining appropriate behavior for everyone?
considering I think Jesus was a nice guy in his time and nothing more, no, I haven't told him about it. I'm JEWISH, and therefore your constant discussion of Jesus is not relevant to me. Besides, if you believe him to be your lord and saviour, you can't exactly define him as a "person" which means he falls outside of what I said anyway.
Translation: "Let them walk away" really means two things: (1) "Letting them walk..." means establishing a pretty high bar for yielding Accountability. Accountability = only local group accountability; individuals, particularly narrow-minded individuals who live beyond the imaginary concentric circle, are excluded from attempting to yield one-on-one accountability; and (2) "Let them walk away" is another way of saying "Live and let live."
how terrible - I want people to live and let live so long as no one is hurting anyone else, which NO ONE is here. What a bastard I am. And you can yield all the one on one accountability you want within your own community, but you still don't get to decide for other parents if these teachers are suitable to teach THEIR children. If you try to, you are saying your judgement is superior to theirs, and I don't see where you get off saying that.