Posted on 06/17/2004 7:21:12 AM PDT by esryle
COVINGTON, Ky. (AP) -- When Covington schools Superintendent Jack Moreland saw an advertisement for a Chippendales show, he thought it would be a good morale booster for his female employees. So he shelled out $420 to send 20 female staff members to a Chippendales show to see buff men strip off most of their clothing.
It worked, but it also raised the ire of at least one person, who wrote an anonymous letter to the state Office of Education Accountability accusing Moreland of using school-district funds to pay for the strip show.
Moreland said he spent $420 of his own money for the show - and faxed his personal credit-card receipt to investigators.
"I did it in fun, and they went in fun, and I don't think there was any harm done," he said.
Bryan Jones, a lawyer for the Office of Education Accountability, said he couldn't confirm or deny whether his office looked into a complaint.
The women who attended the show said they enjoyed it.
"We just laughed and laughed and laughed," said Jena Meehan, the superintendent's secretary. "It was a spectacle, to be sure, and to have all of us there was even funnier."
Chippendales is a high-class male revue that became popular in the 1980s. Well-muscled young men wearing bow-ties and bare chests strip to scanty undies for female audiences.
Moreland is the former president of the Council for Better Education, the superintendents group that brought the historic lawsuit that resulted in the Kentucky Education Reform Act of 1990 and its revolutionary reform of Kentucky's public schools.
If you truly hold this to be true, then the reverse is also true: The reason there is a lack of value in individual rights is because enough individuals say there is. If majority rules--or if a quorum says so--and if that is the only basis of authority you can muster, then the lack of value in say, individual Jewish rights in 1930s and 1940s Germany/Europe was because there were enough Germans/Europeans who said there was.
I'm sorry, but the Nazis proved your worldview to be bankrupt.
No Danny, you're assuming the worst traits of a extremist teacher.
Teachers are supposed to teach math, grammar, history, etc.
You want to be an activist in a second grade classroom, I don't want anyone's activism in classrooms.
Not even yours.
Teaching kids moral values is a parent's job, not some teacher's.
You want to judge other people's ability to teach children based on their activities outside the classroom, but your activities inside the classroom (at least what you've shown here) are more reprehensible than theirs.
Why would it be any of their business?
While this is a true statement, there is more to our culture than that.
It's the parents' job to be the primary & intentional educator of their children's moral values. But that does not mean that influential adults are not teaching moral values to kids all around them all the time.
Values are caught more than they are taught. They are absorbed life-on-life, not just via lectures from classroom pulpits.
We all are in a position to discern integrity on a daily basis of those around us.
every religion has some balance to it, but it doesn't sound like you are much interested in what might be good in their religion.
as for the rest - i'd say let the kid enjoy the dinosaurs, but they are your kids to raise how you see fit, as mine will be to raise as i see fit. your daughter sounds like a bright one - that's a blessing. :)
Are you consistent, livianne in applying this standard?
Cannibalism is deep-seeded heritage-wise in many African and island "communities." I can just see it now, livianne preaching to the Christian missionaries who opposed cannibalism in Papua New Guinea, etc.: "then let them decide for themselves about cannibalism - but you seem to be deciding all by yourself about something that doesn't affect you. let their community decide. And if they decide there is no problem, then will you be quiet about it?"
As soon as Livianne is done there, she takes her time machine ride and moves on to child sacrifice in South America and ancient Middle East cultures. She tells folks opposing that practice: "let them decide - but you seem to be deciding all by yourself about this legal practice of child sacrifice--something that doesn't affect you. let their community decide. And if they decide there is no problem, then will you be quiet about it?"
From there, livianne is off to Nazi Germany & Hungary, where she lectures Lutherans Bonhoeffer & Wallenberg to stop opposing the the extermination of Jews. She tells them, "if Europeans are against the Holocaust, then let them decide - but you seem to be deciding all by yourself about something that doesn't affect you. let their community decide. And if they decide there is no problem, then will you be quiet about it?"
Finally, livianne completes her tour of duty in the South U.S. in the 19th and 20th century. She tells the Underground Railroad & abolitionist folk, "let the Southerners decide - but you Northerners seem to be deciding all by yourself about something that doesn't affect you. let those south of the Mason/Dixon line decide. And if they decide there is no problem, then will you be quiet about it?
You can always tell the bankruptcy of a worldview by applying it to historical parallel situations. If it can't hold weight, it's not a universal absolute worth embracing. Toss it in the garbage can where it belongs.
course, on a spiritual, emotional connection level. But it comes down to the physical urges either way, and if he has them toward the female form, how could you allow him to examine you?
Ah, excellent point.
ROTFLMAO!!!
I guess it's a good thing that Chuck didn't dance!
They teach kids math and such, you want to take over my parental role, and inject your beliefs into my kids. You're dangerous.
At worst, the only thing that can be said about these teachers is that they are free American adults who participated in a legal activity after work hours, without using taxpayer money.
Yo!
Reality check...
This isn't about Nazis and Jews and genocide. This is about free American adults participating in a completely legal activity, and not doing it on taxpayer's money.
Get a grip.
That's a whole load of crap.
No, they wouldn't have at all...no more reason to fire men than women for participating in a legal activity after work hours.
Sub-navel fixation is going to be the death of us all...
au contraire, you prove my point exactly. be it right or wrong, when enough Germans agreed that Jews did not have rights, it became true that in that society the value of the individual rights of Jews disappeared. When enough people in the rest of the world decided this was unacceptable, the camps were liberated, Jews were freed and had rights returned to them by people who did see the value in their individual rights. I didn't assign a moral good or evil nature to the fact that the value of individual rights in a society comes from majority rule - it's just a fact.
Had these teachers frequented a sex party and had wanton sex with various men and the community had found out, I wager that enough of the society would agree that the teachers' individual rights to enjoy adult activities were no longer as urgent as the right of the group of parents to decide who teachers their children. Then and only then would the teacher be removed, as the will of the larger group would be imposed. But if the teachers had gone to an R rated movie and one person felt that warranted their removal, the teachers rights to their own lives outside school would well outweigh that one person's complaint, and the teachers would be left alone. We've yet to see how this falls in this community, but the fact remains that only the group reaction of the community can decide what value they place on the individual rights of the teachers to enjoy this entertainment over their right to choose qualities in those that teach their children.
What if they're teaching sex ed? :-)
Yeah, TSR is right. What if the in-service training session for the sex-ed educators wasn't good enough in the anatomy portion and they needed to conduct a field trip in order to, perhaps, fill in for where their experiential expertise wained?
That's the most idiotic statement in this entire thread.
Seen by whom exactly?
The other people in that establishment watching the show?
absolutely rock solid consistent. Let's examine your ridiculous examples:
Cannibalism is deep-seeded heritage-wise in many African and island "communities." I can just see it now, livianne preaching to the Christian missionaries who opposed cannibalism in Papua New Guinea, etc.: "then let them decide for themselves about cannibalism - but you seem to be deciding all by yourself about something that doesn't affect you. let their community decide. And if they decide there is no problem, then will you be quiet about it?"
Depends on the nature of the cannibalism. Some cannibals only eat pieces of the dead after they have passed on as a way to honor them and keep them with them. And they only eat those from their own society. Given that arrangement, I'd have no problem with it so long as it affects only themselves. If we are discussing the sort of cannibals who kill outsiders who wander in and eat them, then I would object as I think murder is wrong, but the eating people part - I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't make them stop either.
As soon as Livianne is done there, she takes her time machine ride and moves on to child sacrifice in South America and ancient Middle East cultures. She tells folks opposing that practice: "let them decide - but you seem to be deciding all by yourself about this legal practice of child sacrifice--something that doesn't affect you. let their community decide. And if they decide there is no problem, then will you be quiet about it?"
Again, we are talking about killing, so we're in a completely different area of discussion. Therefore this example doesn't compare in the slightest
From there, livianne is off to Nazi Germany & Hungary, where she lectures Lutherans Bonhoeffer & Wallenberg to stop opposing the the extermination of Jews. She tells them, "if Europeans are against the Holocaust, then let them decide - but you seem to be deciding all by yourself about something that doesn't affect you. let their community decide. And if they decide there is no problem, then will you be quiet about it?"
number of things wrong with this one - a) we're on murder AGAIN, which means that you clearly draw some comparison between a strip club and mass murder, which says something VERY disturbing about YOU. b) Hitler wanted to rid the world of Jews, Gays, Gypsies, etc. Therefore, it affected EVERY community in the world, and therefore everyone's opinion held weight there. c)When Hitler's atrocities were really up and going, anyone close by who would protest risked death, so there was no way for a group of people to protest and get him out of there. I'm fairly sure a mass bombing campaign is not necessary to get the teachers back in line.
Finally, livianne completes her tour of duty in the South U.S. in the 19th and 20th century. She tells the Underground Railroad & abolitionist folk, "let the Southerners decide - but you Northerners seem to be deciding all by yourself about something that doesn't affect you. let those south of the Mason/Dixon line decide. And if they decide there is no problem, then will you be quiet about it?
That's just silly - slavery was something that touched the whole country, and therefore everyone in the country had a stake in it. Also, there we had a group of people who weren't being asked their opinion, and who obviously would have objected. Clearly this is not a situation where if enough people object things will change, because if they objected they died. This meant they needed outside help in order to get them the individual rights they so richly deserved.
You can always tell the bankruptcy of a worldview by applying it to historical parallel situations. If it can't hold weight, it's not a universal absolute worth embracing. Toss it in the garbage can where it belongs.
and you can always tell the desperation of an argument by how extreme and ridiculous the examples become. You're grasping desperately at straws, and it's obvious to everyone that you argue in circles hoping to get a victory through confusion. Sorry - you don't confuse me, but I do find your outlook a little bit twisted.
As a youth sports coach, I tend to draw a cautionary line: If I was to encourage similar behavior in young people by setting an example of embracing public "entertainment" that is not constructive or edifying to them--either now or in later years, then perhaps it's best that I consider steering clear.
You obviously don't have much discernment if after some pretty bankrupt posts among these 400, you label that as the most "idiotic."
Seen by whom exactly?
Answer that question.
The Maisonette in Cincy is one of the best restaurants in the world.
I guess ignorance can be embodied. What? You think the Nazi party in the late 1920s started off killing Jews? No. Folks who apply bankrupt worldviews to the "small" things of life jeopardize others when crises leads them to expanding those same worldviews to life & death situations.
Like they say, you never know what's in the cup until it is spilled. And these mini- cultural skirmishes tend to reveal a few drips of content.
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