Posted on 06/11/2004 9:00:42 PM PDT by nuconvert
Well said. This thread seems to be an equal mix of posters interested only in politicizing every comment, and busybody gossips who can't resist taking potshots at the family.
Well, this time wasn't meant to entertain the rest of us; it was reserved for Reagan's family and friends to say goodbye in whatever manner they felt was fitting.
Eulogies are a hard thing for the family. A story that meant alot to you, might not mean so much for the others. At my Dad's funeral, my cousin told a story about the time my Dad ordered quail at a restaurant. You had to be there. I think the people may have interpreted the story as crude, but it was one of our families favorite stories and it was a comfort to hear it at that time.
Answer: I see a distinction between Reagan and GW Bush's talking about God and the Clinton and Carter rhetoric. What is the distinction? Well, right off, I never beleived that Clinton was sincere about anything, much less religion, so I really have to try to recall back to Carter to make this meaningful to you.
Carter struck me as emasculated by his religion and his politics. His mention of religion never made an impression on me and the memory is faint. I suppose I saw it as a southern thing that he did a lot of, but did not particularly bother me as much as his cultural and politicla direction bothered me. I guess you'd have to specify what bothered you about carter's religiosity.
Re: Reagan and Bush (GW) and religion, I value most the distinction between good and bad and all their purpose placed within a cultural context with images adn literature I am familiar with and which make sense to me. I am not a church -goer but don't mind most people who speak of hteir christian or jewish faith. I found W and Reagan as most like those protestant men who were presidents at our country's founding. They were/ are strong and forceful with that vigor harnessed within a vision of the good I can affirm. Read the evil empire sppech which I posted in its entirety above. W was speaking to evangelicals and that's not me [call me a philosophically oriented spiritual person who is was a Catholic inhis youth but has not practiced the religion since his teens. ]
I sent the text to some jewish friends of mine and I tried to read it to see how they might view and if they would be put off by the evangelical setting and the scriptural references. Well, the OT references should not offend Jewish sensibilities, obviously, and the good --evil distinction as the foundation of freedom --slavery teleology strikes me as just right. The key to me appears to be getting the evangelicals to be christian enough not to try and force their "let me save you" stuff down your throat. I am comfortable with their entire liturgy, but just want to make sure they leave alone people who do not want to participate. [The guy who was boorish with the ambrose figure earlier inthis post comes to mind] The :"christian right" would be affirmed by me --so long as they proved they knew what is entailed by tolerance of non-believers and other believers. That's me who is not afraid of them because I know what I am about. They really make other people feel that they are creepy once they get going with that "I got to save you, brother routine".
All this means I am not bothered at all by Reagan and Bush's references to their faith and good and bad.
I've been thinking about this hatred Ron has for Bush and it's pretty obvious, don't you think? Both are sons and the namesakes of ex-Presidents. Let's see...the last time I saw Ronald Reagan Jr. he was hosting the Westminster Dog Show. The last time I saw George W. Bush...he was giving the eulogy for Ronny Reagan's Dad because he's the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. Don't need no stinking degree in Psychology to figure this one out.
It's hilarious, all this talk about "wearing one's faith on one's sleeve"... I have so many deeply religious Christian friends... and yes, everything that happens to them, that is good, or bad is thought of as providence, a lesson to be learned, that God in his wisdom has deemed to teach them.
God is all knowing and has a purpose for each of us. Of course becoming President would be viewed by a Christian as something that God wanted. Absolutely..
The real problem with these commies, the Chris Matthews types, is that they hate God. That is the crux of it. And when they are reminded of God, or they hear someone talk of God, they simply cringe... You can see it in their faces... They really do... Their faces crinkle up.. That is a tell (poker term)... Something is going on inside them, that makes their hearts are so full of hatred towards Christians.
You have a very bizarre mind that made that connection. Trust me, healthy minds did not see that.
Yuck. Really.
Bums me out to read it.
Who the Reagan family is is not our choice to make.
I agree. Michael Reagan's comments seemed the most heartfelt and sincere - and appropriate - to my husband and me. Ron's "eulogy" was unfortunate (to put it nicely), after an otherwise perfect day.
And thank you for the second paragraph. That first line is correct. Carter was emasculated, and you could add "at home." It was best summed up by a person not much liked on here, Novak, who said, "This Presidency is a Mom and Pop operation, and Mom's running the store."
I don't find much, if anything, to disagree with in your other well-written paragraphs, either, on this issue. I think you hit the point I wanted to make (and did in another post) that seeing false piety is different from seeing a person whose religion totally informs his/her actions, i.e., has become almost genetic to the point that it is inseparable from the person.
LOL. Yeah it's all me.
I agree with all your remarks about Ron Jr. That earlobe story was beyond stupid. And of course that was a dig about President Bush. It was a slap in the face to all Bush supporters. As soon as I heard that remark, I thought, that creep couldn't let even his father's funeral go by without taking a political shot. Ron is another Al Franken-he masks his vicious barbs with humor and everyone gives him a pass. He is a Bush-hating liberal, I don't care how much Chris Matthews gushes over him. His sister probably is too, but to her credit, she showed a lot of class this week.
No LOL at all, it's gross and sad, but never funny, that garbage in your head is twisting things a man said about his dad, a story that reminds me of my dear grandfather tweeking my cheek.
Who the Reagan family is is not our choice to make.
Thanks, I often think that many disagreements [though, of course, not all] result from the variability of language and the different way different people have of expressing themselves. It is usually too hard to be so precise all the time so as to avoid confusing other minds. Take care.
Yes - it is.
Have a nice day.
For all you know, that was a running family joke that brought it's other members great comfort at the time. Not to repeat myself, but this ceremony wasn't designed to entertain you; it was intended as a last chance for Reagan's family to say their goodbyes.
The thought police have arrived.
You can have any thought you'd like - just don't expect the rest of us to refrain from pointing out the fact that's it's rather disturbed.
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