Posted on 06/04/2004 11:41:29 AM PDT by quidnunc
Is D-Day, the 60th anniversary of which will be celebrated this Sunday, comparable to the present war on terror? George Bush, who'll be in Normandy for the occasion, thinks so. In his commencement speech at the US Air Force Academy this week, the President cited General Eisenhower's message of June 2, 1944: "Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force, the eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you."
Said Bush: "Each of you receiving a commission today in the United States military will also carry the hopes of free people everywhere."
Others disagree. According to a report in The Guardian, "advisers close to Jacques Chirac have let it be known that any reference to Iraq during the 60th anniversary of the Allied invasion of France on Sunday would be ill-advised and unwelcome." Readers of that newspaper were more to the point: "D-Day vs. Iraq war … is Bush comparing himself to Hitler?" asked one. "The only way in which the two would be comparable is if Iraq invaded the USA and overthrew George Bush," wrote another.
Among the president's critics, the constant theme is that Bush is a twit: "I doubt he'd pass a GCSE paper on either WW2 or the various problems of the middle east…. The man is a disgrace and a testement [sic] to the general publics' woeful ignorance of history." But as the highly logical readers of The Guardian should know, affirming the fact of Bush's stupidity does not by itself answer the questions of whether the war on terror is comparable to the war against the Nazis and whether the invasion of Iraq was a latter-day D-Day. Rather, the relevant questions would be:
1. Do Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden and Hitler occupy the same plane of evil?
2. Is the war on terror as important a struggle as the war on fascism?
3. Are the motives of the United States today as pure as they were in World War Two?
4. Are the means the US is employing today as effective and as justified as they were then?
It's tempting to answer Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes and so bring this essay to an abrupt and justified conclusion. But it bears pointing out first just how radical a No answer to any of these questions would be.
-snip-
(Excerpt) Read more at jpost.com ...
Which is exactly what I did.
Saddam "disappeared" five to seven million people.
What did Hitler do?
Every effort to stop genocidal maniacs is comparable. They may not be equivalent, but they can be compared.
I hate the sign-up regulations.
Where was the BARF ALERT, Quid? You're usually on top of such things...
When the islam nutcakes blow the smithereens out of Paris and kill a few thousand french folks, maybe messour chirac will begin to "see the light"...so to speak.
I don't think the French "can see the light." They were blind in World War II & they are now. Mostly because they are full of themselves & their ideals...just like their favorite son, John F'n Kerry.
I never use 'barf alerts' — EVER!
You should read the article again becvause Stevens is pretty much spot-on.
It's a pro-Bush, pro-American, pro-Iraq war, anti-French, anti-Chirac article. Very well written too. You should read the whole thing.
You could say he was responsible for 50 million deaths.
Hate to mention it to this Frog, but neither Hitler nor Mussolini ever invaded the US or overthrew Franklin Roosevelt. I guess it's OK for Americans to die liberating Frenchmen, but to risk doing so to liberate Iraqis. Racist pig.
A real quagmire and one that isn't
The dedication of the World War II monument in Washington D.C. provides us with more than just an opportunity to express gratitude to one of the greatest generations in American history for their valor, sacrifice, and devotion to duty has they defeated one of the gravest threats to enlightened civilization in history. It also provides us with an opportunity to examine the historical record of World War II and contextualize it in relation to the current situation in Iraq.
If one wishes to adopt the outlook of the contemporary critics of the Iraq enterprise, than World War II could have been characterized as an endless quagmire that we could never win. Relatively few people are aware that the strategic bombing campaign in 1943 nearly ground to a halt when the deep penetration raids into Germany were called off after the catastrophic heavy bomber losses of the Schweinfurt and Regensberg missions. (So brilliantly characterized in the great World War II movie "12 o'clock High") No one was whining loudly and publicly about the fact that the self defending bomber formation concept was flawed and had revealed itself to be so by not having a long-range fighter escort ready at the time. We are so used to the Air Force sustaining almost no casualties in current day operations that we often forget that the 8th Air Force based in England suffered more dead (26,000) than the entire Marine Corps did in World War II (less than 20,000) There were no loudly public howls of quagmire, quagmire we can't win this.
How about the night naval battle off Savo Island, Guadalcanal in August of 1942 in which the United States Navy, defeated by a Japanese navy far better versed in night fighting tactics, sailed away and left the Marines stranded on Guadalcanal with no immediate hope of supply? There weren't any howls of quagmire, quagmire we can't win.
How about the slaughter off the Eastern Seaboard of the United States in 1942 in which the U-boats of the German Kreigsmarine during Operation Drumbeat sunk 500 allied merchant and navy ships in a six-month period in the greatest naval disaster in United States history? There was an almost incomprehensible failure to develop an efficient convoy escort system despite the lessons of World War I. Again no howls of quagmire, quagmire we can't win, let's make the Secretary of War and Chief of Naval Operations resign.
How about the Kasserine pass in Tunisia in February of 1943? The tough veterans of Rommel's Afrika Corps soundly defeated and routed green American troops, sending them into pell mell retreat. Again no howls of quagmire, quagmire these Germans are just too battle hardened and ruthless to beat.
Relatively little is known of the bloody check inflicted on units of the 1st, 4th, 28th, and 9th infantry divisions by the Germans during the battle of Huertegen Forest during Sep- Nov of 1944 as a prelude to the Battle of the Bulge? The men of these units were attrited horribly in one the most soul destroying campaigns in American history, comparable to the Wilderness and Cold Harbor campaigns of the Civil War. Winston Churchill called it "Passchendale with tree bursts." Or the Battle of the Bulge's disastrous opening on the Schnee Eifel in Belgium where intelligence failures allowed a totally surprised American Army to lose to captivity two whole infantry regiments of the 106th division in the opening rounds of the battle? Again no howls of quagmire, quagmire we just can't win.
Or how about the defeat inflicted on the allies during Operation Market Garden (a Bridge Too Far) in 1944 when everyone knew that the Germans were already beaten? Or the horrendous losses off Okinawa? Or the failure to ensure sufficient numbers of tracked landing craft at Tarawa due to a misinterpretation of the meteorological conditions affecting the tides around Betio atoll? Nearly 1,000 Marines died in a 76 hour battle for an atoll smaller than Manhattan's Central Park, many because they had to wade hundreds of yards to shore from Betio's lagoon after their landing craft hung up on the reef. Or the largely unnecessary Pelielu campaign in which 1,800 were killed and 8,500 wounded? Or the bloody repulse at the Rapido River in January of 1944, or the grinding stalemate at Anzio or the entire checkmated Italian campaign, hopelessly bogged down in the Liri Valley before Monte Cassino? Even though the Rapido River attack generated enormous controversy, culminating in a congressional inquiry, it did not commence until the war was over. Or, due to logistical failures, the inability to maintain the pressure on a retreating German Army, shattered in Normandy, which allowed it to refit and regroup behind the Westwall, lengthening the war and costing thousands of lives. Again no howls of quagmire, quagmire we can't win.
We often forget that World War II was no unrelieved string of victories until the final triumph. We often suffered defeat on the battlefield, sometimes catastrophic, but we prevailed because we knew that we had to, since the alternative to victory was just too bitter to contemplate.
Nothing even remotely resembling any of these historical disasters of World War II has occurred in Iraq, but these infantile naysayers who try to pose the situation has an absolute defeat are either hopelessly naïve or determined to demoralize our soldiers and willfully undermine this effort. Despite the setbacks that have occurred in Iraq, there is nothing here that cannot be remedied to this country's favor.
Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1...
... The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty.
... Over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.
... Nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.
... The Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.
.. On Monday, October 6, power generation hit 4,518 megawatts, exceeding the prewar average.
... All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.
... By October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500 more than scheduled.
... Teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.
... All 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.
... Doctor's salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.
... Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.
... The Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccination doses to Iraq's children.
... A Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women.
... We have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production.
... There are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by year-end.
... The wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns.
... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily.
... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.
... The central bank is fully independent.
... Iraq has one of the world's most growth-oriented investment and banking laws.
... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.
... Satellite TV dishes are legal.
... Foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for minders and other government spies.
... There is no Ministry of Information.
... There are more than 170 newspapers.
... You can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.
... Foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.
... A nation that had not one single element -- legislative, judicial or executive -- of a representative government now does.
... In Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman.
... Today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.
... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.
... The Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world.
... Shiva religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.
... For the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.
... The Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.
... Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.
... Children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government.
... Political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.
... Millions of long-suffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.
... Saudis will hold municipal elections.
... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.
... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.
... The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian
-- A Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace.
.. Saddam is gone.
... Iraq is free.
....The handover of power is on schedule.
….Terrorists are being drawn to an arena in which our military can kill or capture them
Our magnificent soldiers, sailors and airmen still have more tough work to do which will undoubtedly be done with the same mix of courage, humanitarianism, innovation, and competence that has characterized our effort in Iraq to date, Abu Ghraib notwithstanding. But when you compare this effort to that other great effort of World War II that we are presently commemorating, this one looks to be comparatively well in hand. All this was accomplished at almost no cost in strictly military terms, and yes, I am aware that the brutal calculus of war is soulless and necessarily heedless of the irreplaceability of individual human beings. But we must also realize that wars in the national interest, as I believe this one to be, require that we be prepared to accept this as a condition of our national security.
Again, I wish to express my undying gratitude to a generation of Americans who showed us how to prevail in a REAL quagmire. And to the Americans who are now getting it done despite those who say they can't or shouldn't. As the ever brilliant Mark Steyn said best in his 30 May editorial:
But that's the difference between then and now: the loss of proportion. They had victims galore back in 1863, but they weren't a victim culture. They had a lot of crummy decisions and bureaucratic screwups worth re-examining, but they weren't a nation that prioritized retroactive pseudo-legalistic self-flagellating vaudeville over all else. They had hellish setbacks but they didn't lose sight of the forest in order to obsess week after week on one tiny twig of one weedy little tree.
There is something not just ridiculous but unbecoming about a hyperpower 300 million strong whose elites -- from the deranged former vice president down -- want the outcome of a war, and the fate of a nation, to hinge on one freaky jailhouse; elites who are willing to pay any price, bear any burden, as long as it's pain-free, squeaky clean and over in a week. The sheer silliness dishonors the memory of all those we're supposed to be remembering this Memorial Day.
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill ~ (1868)
I heard a historian remark the other day that D-Day was the most important date in the 20th century. All events before that date led up to D-Day. All events after are the result of it. Interesting point I thought.
The Treaty of Versailles,is what touched off every single major event and war of the rest of 20th century.
If you want to see why I say that,read " PARIS,1919 ".
And then blame it on US because we didn't prevent it.
I disagree. I think the point I quoted is valid in that the Treaty of Versailles and its results lead up to the events culminating in D-Day. Further, D-Day exhibited the strength, fortitude, etc. of the West, which ultimately gave birth to the Cold War. The gist of the quote I stated is that D-Day can be looked at as a way point for the 20th century
I don't disagree that the T of V brought on WWII, or that one can make the argument that there would have been no WWII without it and no Cold War without WWII.
I have not read "Paris 1919", but will have to do so.
D-Day was an important part of WW II,but it did NOT give birth to the Cold War,nor anything else that came afterwards.
Did you write that? That is INCREDIBLE!
Posted by DMZFrank to RaceBannon
On News/Activism 06/10/2004 5:52:43 PM PDT #9 of 9
Hate to confess, but this one is all my creation. You may use it as you wish. I just felt I could use my knowledge of how dire WWII was for this country for most of our involvement in it and place that into a perspective vis a vis the Iraqi situation. I am sick of hearing how this is an endless quagmire in which we can never succeed. This could be another self inflicted defeat like Vietnam. (I am a vet of the SE Asia war games by the way)
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