Are they coming to draft your daughters?

Vision Forum ^ | 05-28-04 | Doug Phillips

[farmfriend]

then any woman can be put into combat, if one can.

No, only the ones who have the desire and can meet the physical qualifications. That should go for men as well. Set the standards then all must meet those standards.

[tiamat]

First: Life ain't fair.


Second: I don't consider insiting on contraception for the females to be a punishment.

The gals are more of a liability. THEY get pregnant. The guys don't.

As regards the guys

I'm for that, if we can figure out how to do it TEMPORARILY. It's a lot harder with guys to do it temporarily. ( And it would NOT be a good idea to mess with their hoarmones. They NEED to be agressive)

And I personally want our military men in the gene-pool when the time is approriate.

Censuring will not work.

You can censure all sides as much as you want. But the facts remain that we have a bunch of bored, agressive, attractive young people packed in together tightly.

They are GOING to "tango", as you put it.

[albertabound]

However, they do not see combat roles.
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20031020-122552-3754r.htm

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Set the standards then all must meet those standards.

Then those standards will be fairly low and we will lose wars.

[Lorianne]

If "tangoeing" is against the rules, then both should be sanctioned. If it is not against the rules, then let it be.

What you are proposing is making all the women take a contraceptive drug, whether or not they will have sex. This pre-judging all women that they WILL be pregnant. Yet not a singe one of them will get pregnant without the participation of a man, and yet under your system NONE of the men are pre-judged to be procreators.

Therefore, if procreation is a military offense, you've pre-judged ALL the women to be guilty before the fact and NONE of the men to be guilty before the fact. This flies in the face of our fundemental tennet of "innocent until proven guilty".

[William Terrell]

Set the standards then all must meet those standards.

Physical standards. But there are standards related to form and function, which acquire a moral character, don't you think?

There are plenty of men. Women are not only not physically fit for combat but not spiritually fit according to their form and function. No only this but, no matter how large and chunky a woman is, her connective tissue at articulable joints are not as heavy duty as that of men.

The strength may perform for a time, but damage would accumulate. Would it be moral to have a policy that misuses an organism against its form and function when there are an order of magnitude more organisms whose form and functions are designed for it?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Second: I don't consider insiting on contraception for the females to be a punishment.

Within the idea of a mandatory draft, I have SERIOUS objections to forced drugging of any individual. Hormonal contraception is not healthy nor is it well tolerated by everyone. Others may object for religious reasons. Soon there won't be much difference between our policies and those of China.

[farmfriend]

I'm talking about setting real standards.

[tiamat]

Well, I personally don't think they ought to be crewing with the men at ALL... and the pregnancy issue is part of why.

If I were in, I would not have a problem with such a policy.

you don't get a choice bout the anthrax vaccine, EITHER in the service.

[farmfriend]

A valid argument against women in combat. But then my argument was agianst men being denied equal protection under that law not pro-women in combat.

[Lorianne]

Contracting antrax is not against military rules as far as I know. So you're not vacinating against something that would get people kicked out of the miltary. Wrong analogy.

[tiamat]

But is it right to have up to 30 percent of female crew members become pregnant and have to be pulled off of the boat?

I can't recall the name of the ship but there was on last fall that had that happen.

This causes havoc on the ship. The rest of the crew doesn't need that.

So EITHER, the women ought not to be there AT all, or they need to be with all female crew, OR there needs to be some other solution in order to prevent the pregnancy.


I have offered my suggestions.

[tiamat]

It is, however, against the rules to refuse the innoculation.

What would your suggestion be?

I've offered mine, I've told you why.

What do you say?

[tiamat]

farmfriend wrote:


A valid argument against women in combat. But then my argument was agianst men being denied equal protection under that law not pro-women in combat.

---

You keep saying that, but I think the only person who has heard you is me!

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

So EITHER, the women ought not to be there AT all, or they need to be with all female crew,

Both realistic ideas.

OR there needs to be some other solution in order to prevent the pregnancy.

If so it should be voluntary. Forced drugging is totalitarian. If military service is voluntary and the rules are known at enlistment that's one thing. Even so, I believe soldiers who refuse vaccines are either placed elsewhere or discharged. I don't know of any who are held down and injected against their wills. This is especially important if a draft becomes involuntary. You cannot forcibly drug another human being except in extremely limited circumstances.

[Lorianne]

1. Make rules clear and unambigous and enforce them.

2. IF procreation aboard a military ship (or on active duty assignment elsewhere) is to be a military offense, sanction both parties to the act (if both are in the military).

3. If adultery is a military offense (which it is) then either enforce that rule or get rid of it. Having ambiguious rules and/or enforcing rules arbitrarily and selectively harms military morale.

[tiamat]

Last I checked you got an Article 15 if you refused a vaccine. And there were threats of fines, demotions, etc, etc

It is possible, (but it will never happen in this PC military) that IF crew were made to sign a statement swearing that THEY WILL NOT get pregnant, and if they do, both they AND the father will be subject to fines, busts in rank and that the military WILL NOT pay for their pre-natal care, THAT might have an effect.

Like the poster at the top of the thread said, too many people are using the pregnancy as a way to get a cushy slot and out of an unpleasant situation.

[tiamat]

See my next post.

[tiamat]

Sorry about that. I meant #77.

[BOOTSTICK]

Women compete more in formerly male dominated industries, so if only men are drafted, when they get home the good jobs have been secured by females. Time for the women to put up or shut up, ...draft em!