Are they coming to draft your daughters?

Vision Forum ^ | 05-28-04 | Doug Phillips

[farmfriend]

If the draft ever comes again, men will be the only ones required to defend their right to vote with their very lives. Women will face no such requirement.

Right now, men are the only ones forced to register or lose any future government help. Women may receive any government services without such requirements.

Equality at work.

[dandelion]

Scripture makes it clear that women may go into battle:

Judges 4, verses 4 - 10

4 "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
5 And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.
6 And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedeshnaphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun?
7 And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand.
8 And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.
9 And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.
10 And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him."

So, women battle are NOT an abomination. God says so.

[DoughtyOne]

Yes, I agree. At least I would hope you are right.

Let's remember, it wasn't men who forced this present insanity on women. They demanded it. And I might add, they demanded it to the detrement of training standards for all.

Reports I have read lament the easing of training so all troops could train on a level basis. That means that our troops readiness is somewhat substandard to what it used to be.

The same thing happened when women demanded to become police officers. Training courses and physical endurance tests had to be neutered, so women could participate.

I'm not happy about either of these realities.

[tiamat]

The warrior woman is traditional in some societies.

[tiamat]

I would not object so much if the gals were kept in seperate, all female units...this co-ed stuff is nuts.

Battle ships where one-third of the crew is preggers. Yeah THAT'S a great idea!

That said, there's a LOT a woman can do to serve their country.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

But it isn't in the USA, it's just another welfare program. All they have to do is get pregnant, then they'll spend their lives in cushy shore assignments where they have to work for 4 hours a day and it's automatically sex discrimination if they don't get promoted.

[AngieGOP]

Women have been and still are serving quite admirably in the Israeli Army.

[tiamat]

I'm not happy about it either.

The fact is, a petite, 110 lb woman CANNOT hump a pack the way her 200 lb, 6'2" male counterpart can. Nor can she handle some of the same equipment he does.

The thing to do might be to train the gal to be a pilot if her hand/eye coordination is good. Or put her on a sub with other small gals.


We're going about it DUMB.

[farmfriend]

You bring out points that have nothing to do with what I was talking about but I will address them anyway. I have no problem with women being allowed into any profession traditionally held by men but they must meet the standards set for that profession not change the rules so they can get in. I do not hold to affirmative action whether for blacks or women.

As a masculinist, my point was that men are not given equality. They are treated like the disposable gender. If you are going to have a draft then all must be drafted, if you are going to have registration, then all must register. All or none. Equal protection under the law.

[AZLiberty]

This is a straw man argument. Rightly or wrongly, women chose to be in the military. With new evidence, future women may choose differently. Although PC-ness may taint the coverage, I haven't heard of many situations where the presence of women -- in and of itself -- posed a major risk to the mission. (The Abu Ghraib hijinks were not caused by the presence of women. The accompanying intramural sex is another story.)

Men -- and women! -- die all the time. We don't keep women out of automobiles because they might die in a car crash. We don't necessarily keep women out of the military because they might be killed.

It's the Democrats who are raising the spectre of a draft again, even though neither the voters nor the military wants it. With a draft, the Dims think, it will be easier to get people upset about a war that only the Dims oppose.

[take]

Pending Draft Legislation Targeted for Spring 2005
By Action Alert
May 27, 2004, 14:50



The Draft will Start in June 2005

There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed immediately.

$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the sss annual performance plan - fiscal year 2004.

The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era. College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.

Even those voters who currently support US actions abroad may still object to this move, knowing their own children or grandchildren will not have a say about whether to fight. Not that it should make a difference, but this plan, among other things, eliminates higher education as a shelter and includes women in the draft.

The public has a right to air their opinions about such an important decision.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg

[JasonC]

What long winded scare mongering horsefeathers. No, women do not belong in combat. But there is no prospect of a draft, let alone drafting women, let alone for combat. These people need to get a grip.

[MotherofTen]

And of course, not all women demanded it. My father-in-law had the reaction of "they demanded it, so make them do it."

But as I said to him, where does that leave us? We have raised our daughters to be keepers at home: traditional wives and mothers. In fact, we believe it is a sin to not do so. What, would we have to go to jail?

And I won't even vent about the reduced standards in the military academies, etc. Androgeny indeed!

My thoughts turn more and more to thoughts that we live in an age of tyranny.

[tiamat]

Sure, and have the military pay for ll of your med.


It's just nuts.

Frankly, if you are GOING to do that, if I were all-powerful, I would INSIST that any gal who is on a boat be made to have contraceptive implants.

But of course you can't do that! After all, it's HER body!

Exceept in the military it's NOT, really. That's why you must take variou vaccines, you must keep your hair a certain way.

The contraceptive should be the same way.

[JasonC]

Horsefeathers. Dems trying to undermine the president politically float the idea of a draft deliberately to try to increase antagonism toward the war. The administration has no interest in a draft, neither does the military. Ordinary administrative stuff for the selective service system is being spun, along with those Dem lies, into something they are not. Meanwhile, the volunteer military continues to hit all of its manpower targets, because increased patriotism has helped recruitment, while "stop loss" orders and longer deployments have reduced retirements.

[dandelion]

It is also traditional in the Judeo-Christian society, as evinced by the scripture above.

And let's look closer at that scripture he used to illustrate the "abomination" of women wearing warrior's clothing:

Deuteronomy 22, verse 5:

5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

You'll notice it says NOTHING about "women wearing warrior's clothing" - and yet, he directly attributes this falsehood to scripture:

"Yes, Scripture makes it clear that the real issue is not women soldiers in combat roles vs. women soldiers in non-combat roles. The real issue is women playing the role of soldier, period. Remarkably, the Bible spells out several wrongs so outrageous, so wicked, that they earn the title of "an abomination." Homosexuality is one. Killing innocent children is another. Having women serve as soldiers is a third. This act of a woman putting on "the gear of a warrior" (keli gabar) is described in Deuteronomy 22:5 as "an abomination." "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God" (emphasis mine)."

Now, I can ascertain that women being warriors is NOT considered an abomination in scripture - but I CAN ascertain that attributing falsehoods to scripture is a sin.

Even if you wanted to believe that women warriors are an abomination based on the "wearing of men's clothing", that can be shot down in one sentence:

Men's and women's uniforms are different by military code and issuance; the sexes have their OWN unique uniforms that are subtly different, and they must be worn by the appropriate gender.

[edweena]

Given the number of women in the military right now, if there is an attempt to draft men only, I'm sure that many of the men drafted will take the issue to court. If the government is willing to take women volunteers, how can they refuse to draft women along with men?

And it's not only the question of forcing men into harm's way and not women. What about the fact that all of a nineteen-year-old man's female contemporaries would be getting a head start on him as far as graduating from college and snapping up the entry level jobs? I think those young men would have a good case.

President Bush has been right to offer women more opportunities in the military, and I respect him for it. It's a good reason to support him. Yes, some women have screwed up, just as men have. Yes, there are a lot of problems to be solved, but how much worse to try to turn back the clock just as intelligence, training and technology are becoming more and more important in winning military conflicts.

[varon]

another report of a girl wounded, shot to bits, or raped as a prisoner while in the service of Uncle Sam

Sad but true and to make matters worse, many of them are raped by their own comrades-in-arms.