Party Over Principle? (My lone FReep of Arlen Specter)

Self - Vanity | n/a | Self

[Badray]

Thanks.

Aside from the camera, I usually do have several friendly witnesses and I'm always careful not to be in position to be charged with anything. But I also know that some of these SOB's will stoop to some pretty nasty things to protect their seats.

[AGreatPer]

Thanks for the ping. Will read and comment. Right now, I'm watching the sun come up. Little misty, but beautiful.

[jim_g_goldwing]

Citizen... here's where this whole discussion comes into clearer focus... you write:

"I agree Spectre is reprehensible, but voting for him at this point is the best hope we have. He'll at least support the Republicans on some issues, whereas a Democrat would vote for their party line"

There is no delusion that Hoeffel will vote "with us". It is a agreed that he has absolutely no redeeming qualities. None! However, and this is the key... a Hoeffel (would-be Junior Senator) victory knocks out a 24-year liberal RINO who is set to become chair of the Senate Judiciary.

As chair of SJC, with potentially 3 Supreme Court replacements in the next 4 years, Specter will have an opportunity to impact this nation for 30 years or more by blocking conservative appointments. And this doesn't even begin to address the large number of lower court appointments. If Specter is not Chair (because he loses), a very conservative (and consistent) John Kyl will ascend. And as to the commentary concerning the loss of the seat relative to keeping the majority, most analysts (even the Democrats) are expecting that the R's are actually in position to gain seats.

Finally, you further write:

"A vote for a third-party candidate is as good as not voting at all, and Democrats are too busy supporting baby killers and homosexuality--not much chance for conservatism there!"

If we vote 3rd party, that's only taking 1 vote away from Specter. If our goal is to actually remove Specter from office, a vote for Hoeffel in effect counts as 2 votes. Concerning the comment of "too busy supporting baby killers", be mindful of the fact that Specter has consistently voted pro-abortion. And he wants to take no proactive position to support traditional marriage laws in Pennsylvania.

Your thoughts are insightful... I hope you (and others) will cut well beneath the outer layer on this issue to expose the rotten core for what it really is.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.

Love your report, and I agree! At this point, I'm staying away from all political people.

[brityank]

"If Bill Clinton had been convicted by the Senate, we would have Al Gore as President today, and that is fact."

If Bill Clinton had been convicted by the Senate, we would have Al Gore as President today, and that is fact pure nonsense and ridiculous speculation. There, that's better.

While it is true that had clinton been removed Gore would have become president, I doubt he would have been re-elected. Specter's 'Not Proven' vote -- that he openly bragged about prior to its casting, gave cover to the other RINOs and likely closed out those few Dems that were tending to conviction. The Media would have turned around and realised that there was more to the indictment -- involving Gore and Hillary both. I still don't think that clinton would have been convicted, but the resultant fallout of ALL the Republicans voting to convict would have made a vast difference in how the public perceived the Senate trial and indictments.

WRT Specter, he has many times shown his open disdain for the Constitution; his support to Massiah-Jackson was a direct assault on it and the rule of law. I will not vote for either 'Offal or Specter. They are cut from the same cloth.

[smokeyb]

I can support this only if the Republicans will gain several seats this November. Otherwise it is better to preserve the majority than to put an extreme leftist like Joe Hoeffel in the Senate.

A majority of what ? Wishy-washy republicans interspersed with RINOS ? Where is the majority ?

[smokeyb]

The the only way we're going to gain ground in the "culture wars" is by getting more conservative justices appointed to the courts. I see no problem with this in respect to Arlen. Or his place on the judiciary committee.

No?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1144839/posts

You also need to look a Specter's past record. I would rather have a junior senator voting on issues that can be overturned in the near future than a RINO as bad as Arlen manipulating a judicial committee that will affect us and future generations for a lifetime.

[smokeyb]

Anyone who votes for a Democrat supports an evil cause. Everyone who votes for a Republican supports all that is good in our country. Thankfully, most Republicans understand that it is sometimes necessary to do certain things for the "good of the order." And they do it and keep their mouths shut. We are in the battle of our lifetimes, and every word against ANY Republican only strengthens the enemy.

Wow ! Badray, this sounds like something out of the UN ! Just replace Republican with UN !!

[smokeyb]

Thank you, Trent Lott and Rick Santorum.

Exactly ! Call Henry Hyde or David Schippers and ask then about their "meeting" with Lott and Santorum !

[Doug Loss]

I am also from Pennsylvania and I have to tell all the non-Pennsylvanians here that all of their "support Specter" arguments fall on deaf ears. It's our election, our votes to cast, and Arlen has seen the last of them. If it were a question of voting for Arlen or having the Senate fall in to Democrat hands (it isn't), you might have a valid argument; barring that, "anyone but Arlen" is our rallying cry!

[Jeff Head]

God bless you my friend for having the courage and the conviction to go to that meeting and stand up to these people who are parlaying with the enemy and advancing their agenda...using diception, fear and party loyalty to override principle...and that is exactly what Spectre and those like him are doing.

We all need to read once again, George Washington's farewell speech. He understood the future danger. Here's what he said:

Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

If I were in your position I would vote for the Constitution or the American Independednt candidate in your state as opposed to the Democrat.

But that's just me. That way, my vote would also stand on the same principles as my protest since I couldn;t use it (as I know you would) if Toomay were in the race.

[adb102]

Boy did you get the freepers going. I enjoyed reading the posts. Those wanting to play politics over principal at all costs are giving cover for Bush & Frist & Santorum. They see the willing cool-aid sippers and think they are on the right track. At some point we cross a line and become no better than the Dem's. For me Arlen is that line.

[smokeyb]

Amen to Washington

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1144059/posts?page=13

[Jeff Head]

Let me re-word that last sentence in my post 94...it didn't make good sense.

By voting for the Constitution or the Independent American candidate...your vote would stand on the same principle as your vote for Toomay would have if he were in the race.

God bless.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Keep fighting the good fight Ray.

[Jeff Head]

Thanks...God grant that a man like him rises to the presidency again in our life time.

[Badray]

Good morning, Bill. I look forward to hearing your insights and comments. But be gentle. ;-)