Offshoring hits home

Boulder Daily Camera ^ | May 23, 2004 | Erika Stutzman

[A. Pole]

The issue is not about what anyone wants to make; but, what it actually cost to live in the US versus another country. Outsource or downgrade enough workers and the cost of living here, the value of real assets, will also have to come down. If that has yet to materialized it may be because many people are living at a standard which is beyond their means. We can ignore the impact for as long as we have a liberal supply of credit. However, the day we hit a credit limit, is when the extent of the damage will become painfully evident.

Hear, hear! This is how the "free" market correction will look.

[hedgetrimmer]

Sustainable Resources 2004, a forum that will take place in Boulder Sept. 30 to Oct. 2,...is co-sponsored by the University of Colorado,

The word sustainable can be substitute with the word collectivist. "Sustainability" is merely collectivist managed resources, and no American University should be co-sponosoring this collectivist ideolgy.

Sustainable villages! Because Santa Cruz County is leading edge in "sustainability" due to the globalists and socialists that run our county, I can tell you what a "sustainable village" is. Its a small town that has had through force of government, its density increased by 5 fold, and its population quadrupled or quintupled. It is a village where traffic from other towns is forbad,and roads are redesigned so that regional traffic doesn't pass through it. A sustainable village often has a CC&R with the deveopler that says tenants( the don't build homes or condos, the commoners are not to own property)can't live their unless they give up the cars. Roads are "Calmed" and eliminated so that pedestriants and bicycles are the only traffic that can actually get from point A to point B.

The village is centered around secular "community centers", no churches exist in a "sustainable village". All musuems must be located in the "urban core" of the "sustainable village" ostensibly so that the ruling elite can decide what should be in it. Baseball diamonds and open fields where kids can just play are out (might cause kids to play competitive sports). One planner in the group that is planning the Marina "sustainable village" wants to discourage kids altogether. He says kids vandalize things and wants them eliminated from the village.

Does this sound sustainable to you? Or does it sound more like communism is stealthily taking over?

As for poverty stricken nations that are making money off of offshoring-- it is classic wealth transfer in the communist style-- its not sustainable for us, because we will be bankrupted by the time the global sustainable villages are complete.

[Reeses]

$10 per hour, compared with more than $60 per hour

The $60 is total costs including benefits and employer paid taxes. India costs are now at about $30 per hour. The big difference is the $60 per hour American pays about $30 per hour in taxes, everything from sales, fuel, property taxes, etc. So companies are really saving money by cutting out Uncle Sam.

[VOA]

So companies are really saving money by cutting out Uncle Sam.

Not to mention the legal liabilities with American workers.

[bvw]

A Eagle Scout knows enough to admit when he doesn't know. "On my honor" -- truth is good, but can be partial. Honorable truth knows when it don't know.

In my troops you would have stalled at second class.

[Hotdog]

Sometimes the Honerable truth hurts bvw...have a nice day

[bvw]

To you through your hubris, there is no understanding.

About you, fortunately, I can say, "Not a representative subset." In knowing the job market, and in absense of the humility that without which social observations cannot be made for lack of a zero-point reference.

[A. Pole]

total costs including benefits and employer paid taxes [...] So companies are really saving money by cutting out Uncle Sam.

And who will pick up their share? How the benefits will be paid? You see, the laid off workers still need the doctor when they get sick and will need to support when they get old. In meanwhile they will pay much less taxes if any.

The companies/CEO will reap the short term profit from free access to American market (no tariffs) and will be perplexed when the market will start to shrink.

[snopercod]

I've been sending out resumes for...let's see...over ten years now. Aerospace, power plant, instrumentation, nuclear, electrical engineering.

I'm still waiting for ONE response. That's right, not one response in ten years.

It seems I'm trained in the wrong disciplines, and live in the wrong state. And the main problem is that I'm over 55.

[Sender]

"$60 per hour for the average American programmer."?! Why are they lying?

For the same reasons they tell lies such as wars for oil, womens' reproductive health, and the meaning of the second amendment.

They assume, and hope, that most people are uninformed and will just accept it as fact.

[Sender]

It seems that outsourcing might work as intended if, by giving low-income people in third-world countries a better living standard, those people would then turn around and spend those new-found riches on American-made products, opening up new markets for us.

Even if they do, won't many of those products be outsourced themselves? So workers in China are buying PCs with Chinese motherboards, memory and disk drives, running software written in India?

Companies will tell you that still, a percentage of those sale profits come to America since American corporations are operating in the black using outsourced labor. But if the majority of laborers don't live in America, then to whom are those American profits going? And to whose benefits and retirement accounts? Executives and CEOs?

[remember]

According to Forrester research, the average computer programmer in India earns roughly $10 per hour, compared with more than $60 per hour for the average American programmer.

"$60 per hour for the average American programmer."?! Why are they lying?

I suspect that they are lying so as to undercut any sympathy for American programmers and to promote the idea that the jobs are being outsourced because those programmers are grossly overpaid. In fact, the basic problem is that the cost of living in India is much lower that it is here. An American programmer could not survive on the wages being paid to Indian programmers. Hence, few of those jobs will be offered to American programmers, at any wage.

I hate to say it,but everybody lies.

It seems to have become the great American pastime.

Lie,get caught in the lie,apologize.

In fact, they will probably excuse the lie, claiming that the figure includes benefits and the employer's share of the FICA tax. Nevermind that they made no mention of this in their original statement. Hence, the correct description of their actions might be...

Mislead, get caught, give dishonest explanation, mislead again.

[Hotdog]

I think you hit the nail on the head...no...not over 55 (I'm in the same age range)...wrong state could be the problem...You have to go to the job...it doesn't come to you. Try the Automotive Industry...they are dying for good Electrical Engineers...that is if your willing to relocate. Good luck in your ventures!

[ninenot]

Project managers will make around $75K, which is approx. $60./hour WITH BENEFIT LOADING--socsecurity, health, dental, vacations, holidays, etc.

Basic experience programmer should be about $50K, or around $40./hour with full bennies loading.

[ninenot]

Steve Troy, executive director of the Sustainable Village, said the "digital bridges" created by information technology give Third World and other poor nations a chance for their citizens to make more money than they otherwise could. The result, he says, is a chance for those countries' citizens to become more active consumers of the things U.S. companies produce as well.

I love this stuff; same as the "Largest Consumer Marketplace In The Universe" garbage re: China.

At $10./hour, it's not likely that these programmers are going to be buying a lot of Cadillacs, (nor Chevy Vegas.)

Furthermore, WHICH products "manufactured in America?"---damn few left these days.

[sarcasm]

The vision is still much the same as it was in the 19th century when it
was argued that if only the Chinese could be persuaded to legthen
their shirttails by a foot the mills of Lancashire would work around
the clock.

[RFEngineer]

So, let me see, Hotdog has been in the business for 27 years......that's not good enough for you. He was an Eagle Scout........but that's not good enough for you.....

Do I have this right? Is there anyone, other than yourself, who is qualified to comment on this?

I'm with Hotdog......the work is there. One must move to where it is, or generate the opportunity where you are.

[snopercod]

"If you want to build bridges, you must go to where the rivers are."

[RFEngineer]

"I've been sending out resumes for...let's see...over ten years now. Aerospace, power plant, instrumentation, nuclear, electrical engineering."

Maybe at age 55 folks expect you to have focused a little more on your specific areas of expertise. It is a very rare engineer that is proficient in all the areas that you mentioned - most likely you are applying for jobs that you really aren't qualified for.

Send me your resume, and I'll give you more specific feedback. If after 10 years of looking and you've not had a SINGLE response........the problem is not the market, or offshoring.

[snopercod]

Well, you could be right. I'm a jack-of-all-trades, master of none.

Who do you know that has built nuclear plants, launched space shuttles, activated steam turbines and mobile launch platforms, built office buildings, worked as a machinist, electronic tech, plumber, electrician, TV repairman (remember those?), built airplanes from scratch, done masonry, concrete work, architecture, roofing, AutoCAD, project management, and castrated goats?

Thanks for the offer, but there is nothing wrong with my resume. There is simply no demand in post-industrial America for someone like me who knows how do do everything pretty well. It just confuses the hell out of the HR people who vet the resumes.