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A hostile but well written analysis of an author regularly posted on FR.
1 posted on 05/19/2004 12:31:38 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: Tolik

PSHAW?!


2 posted on 05/19/2004 12:39:49 PM PDT by BufordP (I'm Jimmy Valentine's Brother's brother)
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To: dueler88; RonDog; JohnHuang2
Ping!
3 posted on 05/19/2004 12:45:50 PM PDT by Mr.Atos
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To: robowombat
F. Roger Devlin, Ph.D., is a freelance writer, scholar, and author.

In other words, he's unemployed. I guess he's auditioning for a job at some liberal university. Looks like he's on the right track to gainful employment, with this long-winded attack on VDH and America's war on terrorism.

4 posted on 05/19/2004 12:50:59 PM PDT by 68skylark (.)
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To: robowombat; stainlessbanner; 4ConservativeJustices; GOPcapitalist; Burkeman1; stand watie; ...
Victor Davis Hanson is a fine military historian of classical Greece. He knows so little of political theory that he cannot distinguish imperial aggression from its opposite. Sherman marched for the imperial aggrandizement of the Union; Epaminondas marched to destroy the Spartan empire. In that regard, these two figures were polar opposites. Sherman’s historical predecessors were rather the Persian commanders who attempted to crush agrarian, democratic, “Western” Athens and incorporate it into their empire.

How did Prof. Hanson come to associate two such figures in his own mind and in his writings? As best as I can reconstruct it, his train of thought went something like this: “The Greeks were agrarians who figured out democracy and Western Civilization. We Americans are the heirs of that civilization; lots of us used to be farmers and a few still are; we call our own form of government democracy. So we are the Greeks of today. The Confederates, however, owned slaves—which we know is wrong, though the Greeks for some reason didn’t. The Confederates, then, were the Persian tyrants of the nineteenth century. Since Sherman fought them, he was the heir of the Athenians facing down Persian might at Marathon. Or perhaps of Epaminondas freeing Messenia from Spartan rule: it doesn’t so much matter. In any case, since we are Americans and heirs of the Greeks, we are also Unionists, Western, enemies of tyranny, and various good things. When we fight, the other guys are Persians, Spartans, rebels, Asiatics, tyrants, and various bad things.”

This “Hanson doctrine,” as it might be called, is not only supremely confused—it possesses a self-righteous Manichean quality worthy of Robespierre.

Southern Heritage Bump

5 posted on 05/19/2004 12:52:56 PM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: robowombat

Long-winded feller, isn't he? Not a bad synopsis of Hanson's career, but the dichotomy the author appears to perceive between the European Enlightenment and its Greek agrarian roots is, in fact, nonexistent both in Hanson's works and in fact. I think his real problem is that he doesn't like how Hanson deals with an idealized South, and there's not a lot to be done about that.


6 posted on 05/19/2004 12:53:06 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: robowombat
Who wrote this?...oh...Chamberlain you say?

FMCDH

7 posted on 05/19/2004 12:54:44 PM PDT by nothingnew (KERRY: "If at first you don't deceive, lie, lie again!")
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To: robowombat
1) University Press of America, where Prof. Devlin "published" his apparently only book, is a vanity press.

2) Maybe I missed it, but he seemed to skip over "Carnage and Culture" on his way to "Soul of Battle." Had he not done so, he would have found that Hanson, in fact, argues that one element of the "western way of war" is to fight to total victory and unconditional surrender. This outweighs any concerns over the southern "family farms." Yes, there were far more "family farms" in the South than plantations, but unfortunately, the plantation owners dominated the secession conventions and the "average" southern farmers lacked the will to resist . . . or else actually shared in their secessionist views. Either way, they were part of the problem.

For the author to quote the 12 "Agrarians" as to the southern character is a) dated and b) not necessarily right. After all, McWhiney and Jamison have argued ("Attack and Die") that the southern character was grossly mis-shapen by the Celitic influence on the south, and this "herding" character emphasized honor, offensive attacks, and a cavalry tradition (exactly like the Persians or Carthaginians); and they further argue that this is seen in the disproportionate casualties the South took: Lee lost MORE men as a percent of those committed in every battle than did the north except for Fredericksburg. The point is not Lee's generalship but whether the South fits the "non-western" part of Hanson's model, and I think it does.

Bottom line, the author has to jump through hoops to take pokes at VDH. Hanson has some inconsistencies (downplaying, for example, the significance of mounted knights in the Charles Martel's army) but overall he is one of the most VISIONARY people out there, unlike the critic.

8 posted on 05/19/2004 1:04:11 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news.)
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To: robowombat

Interesting summary of Hanson's work until we reach the later books. Odd how such an apparently intelligent reviewer is blinded by his own ideological presuppositions. I don't know where Devlin stands. He does not appear to be a kneejerk liberal by any means. Perhaps he is one of those neoconservatives who disapproves of the Iraqi war on other grounds?


10 posted on 05/19/2004 1:06:48 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: robowombat

Read half-way placemarker.


12 posted on 05/19/2004 1:11:01 PM PDT by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: Dark Wing

ping


14 posted on 05/19/2004 1:17:29 PM PDT by Thud
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To: robowombat
At first it was bin Laden and al-Qaeda, of course. But as soon as the Bush administration announced that Iraq was a proper target for American retaliation,

He almost lost me right here...

15 posted on 05/19/2004 1:21:46 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: robowombat

F'ing Roger Devlin: Twit!


17 posted on 05/19/2004 1:34:40 PM PDT by buzzsaw6 (The cutting edge!)
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To: robowombat

bump for later read - Thanks for posting.


19 posted on 05/19/2004 1:38:56 PM PDT by Khurkris (Ranger On...revenge, grudge, payback...call it what you will. The knives are comin' out.)
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To: robowombat
Ya gotta love this:
"Victor Davis Hanson is a fine military historian of classical Greece. He knows so little of political theory that he cannot distinguish imperial aggression from its opposite. Sherman marched for the imperial aggrandizement of the Union; Epaminondas marched to destroy the Spartan empire. In that regard, these two figures were polar opposites. Sherman’s historical predecessors were rather the Persian commanders who attempted to crush agrarian, democratic, “Western” Athens and incorporate it into their empire."

Mr. Devlin is what is commonly called "loony-tunes". People can argue about just where he is coming from, but it sure as hell isn't from this planet.

20 posted on 05/19/2004 1:43:57 PM PDT by Thud
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To: robowombat
Verrrry Long.. but interesting, not boring..
( Yes, I read the whole thing..)

I must admit having to take the author's word for his conclusions concerning Davis' later works, as I have not read them..
His extensive "cliff notes" on the earlier works are fascinating reading, however, and "make sense"..
I am curiously encouraged to investigate further..

My only concern is of course, with Mr Devlin's conclusions concerning the American Ideal vs. Terrorism..
I cannot in all honesty, see much parallel between the ancient greek agrarians and the american military machine, nor how it applies to a "guerrilla" war..

I'll make a copy of the article, make a few bookmarks, do some Googling, and peruse my own library, and see what conclusions I can arrive at..

Thanks, robo, for the post.
I think I'm getting a headache... ;op

21 posted on 05/19/2004 1:46:48 PM PDT by Drammach (Freedom.... not just a job, ... It's An Adventure!!!)
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To: robowombat

Paid by the word?


22 posted on 05/19/2004 1:47:59 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: robowombat
He seems oddly out of place among the professional libelers and callow minds now posing as heirs to that once respectable journal[National Review].

Isn't "professional libelers" ,er, libelous?

(Calling all FR lawyers.)

23 posted on 05/19/2004 1:48:17 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: robowombat
To compensate for the inferiority of the soil, they began to experiment with other crops, notably olives, figs, and vines—inventing the practice of grafting in the process.

Environmental determinism rears its ugly head. Ironically, in the purported history of the earliest determinists, LOL!

26 posted on 05/19/2004 1:51:25 PM PDT by Cobra Scott
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To: robowombat
Aristotle saw this: “when the farmer class and the class having moderate means are in control of the government, they govern according to laws; the reason is because they have a livelihood, and they are not able to be at leisure, so that they put laws in control of the state and hold only the minimum number of assemblies necessary”

An example of that environmental determinism in their own philosophy.

27 posted on 05/19/2004 1:53:21 PM PDT by Cobra Scott
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To: robowombat
BUMP!!

redrock

28 posted on 05/19/2004 1:54:50 PM PDT by redrock ("Better a Shack in Heaven....than a Mansion in Hell"---My Grandma)
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