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To: Havoc
If you don't wish to wade through hundreds of posts, I'll give you the rundown. Havoc is losing/lost his job as the result of outsourcing supposedly, and it's Bush's fault. Bush is supposed to tear up all the business charters of corporations that produce anything outside of America. And since he won't do that, he's not a real conservative. And those of us who don't agree with him are BushBots.

Having just arrived, I would like your take on the accuracy of this post before I blast you. Could you clarify your position in response to this description?

250 posted on 05/16/2004 4:13:01 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Pukin Dog

My take on the accuracy of that? Well, I'll tell you this much, it fits the constant attacks and maltreatment everyone else gets. So I'll tell you what I've said.

My position is that outsourcing is a result of free trade and Nafta. Nafta and the concept of free trade were pushed through and supported under Clinton and are supported by Bush. Therefore it is Bush's policy. My job is being outsourced by the end of this calendar year because competition forced my employer's hand. Other companies have already outsourced as a result of this policy and have put pretty massive pressure on the rest of the industry to oursource themselves or lose contracts to those that have.
The policy is the jumping off point that made it possible. Therefore I do put responsiblility for this squarely where it lies, with the Presidents who have supported it and the congress who put nafta on their desk. To that extent, Bush is in part responsible for people losing their jobs to outsourcing.

If you don't say every bit of that in precise detail, the retort from others is that I said Bush came and fired me or some stupid silly thing like that. I'm losing my job because labor in Mexico can be had for a fraction of what is paid here. The difference in per-seat cost is staggering.

Further more, I didn't ever say that Bush is supposed to tear up charters of corporations or he isn't a real conservative. I don't know who your source is; but, they need to get their facts straight. Nor have I said that people who disagree with me are Bushbots. I have said that people who twist what I say and try to argue something other than what I say because they cannot or will not debate what I actually say are like Bush Cultists. I love Bush for the most part. I just happen to disagree with him on immigration as most here do, and on free trade - as those do publicly who don't mind being maligned endlessly for it, lied about, talked deceitfully about ect.

Someone asked me what I would personally do to fix things in doing away with free trade. In the heat of things, I responded that I personally would revoke it, put the tarrif system back in place that built us into the power we have been, level the playing field again so that Americans aren't competing for their jobs against 50cent a day wages in china as though Americans could live on 50cents a day or an hour as is the larger case. This is an issue free traders run away from in swarms. Not one person can address it because it betrays the vacancy of their claim that it is free and fair. Can you yourself live on 50cents an hour. If you can't, then explain how it is fair to force America to compete with that when we don't have to.

Oh, so nobody can claim I dodged the point. In context, most want to argue that the jobs going overseas don't belong to us. So I noted sarcastically that in killing free trade, I would also deal with the incentive system and would include the notion that if Industry wanted to make American profits but couldn't live within supply and demand in our system, then I'd tear up their articles of incorporation and revoke their business licenses. If Americans have no right to their jobs, The businesses can't claim to have a right to their licenses.

Thanks for actually asking what I said. I think I've been clear; but, if not, just let me know. I have been looking for another comparable job trying to work within my physical restrictions because I am handicapped in the sense that I can't drive a car. Try to imagine how limiting that can be and you may have some appreciation for what it means in the larger picture. Not impossible; but certainly restrictive.
Everything I said at the time was twisted. I'm losing my job because - at the root - of a policy decision. Because I complained about it, I'm doing nothing to prepare for the eventuality, it's my fault I'm getting fired, I must be a worthless employee because I'm losing my job, etc. The charges and the attrociousness of them are endless.

My job is gone. I'm dealing with it. But I don't think it's right so I'm debating, discussing and trying to change it so that more people aren't hurt by it in the long run.
For that I have been dubbed every kind of vile thing. And your quotation or paraphrase is just another example of the twisting of words employed to make me into something I'm not because I happen to disagree. I'm not alone.


303 posted on 05/16/2004 5:14:30 PM PDT by Havoc ("The line must be drawn here. This far and no further!")
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