Posted on 05/14/2004 9:58:35 PM PDT by Burkeman1
It's ironic that at a time when the whole world is disgusted by pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused by thugs and sluts in American uniforms, an American doctor in Germany reports that Thomas Hamill was reasonably well-treated by his Iraqi kidnappers.
A bullet wound received at the time of Hamill's capture had been treated surgically, the wound was cleaned on a daily basis, and Hamill had been given antibiotics, the doctor said. Hamill said that while he was moved frequently, he was not beaten or mistreated after his capture.
The significance of the contrasting treatment of prisoners by Iraqi resistance fighters and American military police is this: Pfc. Keith Maupin, still in the hands of his kidnappers, might not fare so well now that his kidnappers know what was going on in Abu Ghraib prison. If they decide to "even the score" on this poor young man, his suffering will be the responsibility of the U.S. Army.
The Army learned of the prisoner abuse last January and since then has moved with all the speed of a dinosaur trapped in a peat bog. So far, six senior officers have been reprimanded and one admonished. Six enlisted people face criminal charges. Naturally, they will dump on the enlisted people. The Army's first bellowed response was "isolated incident" and "exception."
It was not either one. One report has already said that the problems of abuse were widespread. Twenty-five Iraqis have died while in American custody in Iraq and Afghanistan, and two Iraqis were murdered by Americans. Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who was criticized for a sloppy and poorly disciplined command, is nevertheless right when she says that those enlisted people did not dream this up by themselves. She has, by the way, put forward a novel defense. She accepts "some responsibility" but not blame. She was the commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade, of which the offending 372nd Military Police Company was a part.
What American guards did to the Iraqi prisoners shows knowledge of Arab culture, a knowledge you can be sure these young reservists didn't learn in their rural hometowns. The humiliation these prisoners were forced to endure hurts an Arab more than a whip. This whole business smells of intelligence and CIA. Let's hope the enlisted people will have sense enough to rat out their superior officers rather than make an idiotic excuse that they hadn't been trained. Since when do people have to be trained to be decent human beings?
It's also obvious that these moral morons didn't fear their superiors, or they would not have taken the pictures. Seymour Hersh, who wrote an excellent piece in The New Yorker, believes that even more disturbing pictures will eventually surface.
What has come to light so far is probably only the tip of the iceberg. The United States is holding about 10,000 Iraqis in various places and keeps outsiders away. There are also what Human Rights Watch calls several legal "black holes" around the world where the United States is holding people without anyone else's knowledge and without any access by human-rights people, much less lawyers. God only knows how they are being treated.
This is the ugly side of war and of a war state. Intelligence itself is an ugly business. The job of an intelligence case officer is to induce other people to become traitors. Lying and deception and worse habits become a way of life. Then when you have someone officially designated as an enemy completely at your mercy, the intoxication of power sets in. And in time of war, it is so easy to rationalize any tactic, so easy to adopt a racist attitude toward the other side.
The only thing exceptional about this incident is that it has come to public light. What's going on out there in darkness, you probably don't want to know. It would probably confuse you as to who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, to use the juvenile language of the current administration.
At any rate, these guards and the people who directed them have given the United States a black eye in the world from which it will be difficult to recover. They have dishonored the uniform. President Bush's blather about freedom and democracy will ring hollow. Some people already think of the United States as a rogue nation. At the rate the Bush administration is fouling up, we'll achieve pariah status pretty soon.
Say welcome aboard to Tucker Carlson then- who just recently apologized to Pat Buchanan on the phone for his name callig, says he is totally against the this lame war, apologizes for his lying columns that supported this fako war, and says he is getting more "paleo" every day.
Tucker Carleson is a bow tyed wimp. Now, you made some accusations. Post your evidence or retract your accusations. Specifically that the Red Cross asserts that "up to 12 Iraqis per day are dying in American Military custody" and that the Army report details "25 murders" of military detainees.
Tucker was probably drunk on his butt and thought he was calling some girl from the office.
Boy am I impressed. Wars require staying power and bow tied Tuck doesn't have much. I know things are rough in Iraq. That's when we see their true mettle.
With that guy it is not hard to best him. I see it as a minor victory.
No. You refute me. I am not the one with the credibility problem.
Now Burkeman1, I have a bard time believing you're gonna be able to back up these blatant fabrications.
First you say our troops have been accused of committing 25 murders in our Prisons, then you claim there is proof of 12 murders a day committed by our troops. That's about 4,500 murders since last April?
Methinks you need to cancel your lifetime subscription to Al-Jazeera :-)
You made the charge the ball is in your court. As to credibility I will leave that for others to judge. Your lack of response shows you are un-informed at best and a damned liar at worst.
Civil- 25 murders in the Army report that "could" be murders. That is government so we know it is a lie right away. The Red Cross says that our regular troops murder up to 12 Iraqis a day under dubious circumstances.
Tell it to Jessica Lynch, Mr. Reese.
Post the evidence from both reports!
Wherever do you get this shit and where do you get the nerve to call our troops murderers? You are a disgrace.
If I could would you believe it all? Would it change your mind?
if you're gonna make such claims, you're gonna have to back them up with links and proof that they're not just baseless accusations coming from Iraqi detainee's who have an axe to grind.
Without backing up what you have posted on this thread, your credibility is toast, and you should consider posting on a science fiction Forum, we demand proof for these kind of wild accusations, no matter where you read them
I want to see the evidence from the sources you are citing NOT from 3rd party summaries. Just remeber I have a copy of the Taguba report to keep you honest.
so what evidence do you except?
IT IS SIMPLE. THE TWO SOURCES YOU CITED. THE MILITARY REPORT AND THE RED CROSS REPORT.
And see them- they validate me.
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