Drug Makers Hope to Kill the Kick in Pain Relief

NY Times ^ | April 20, 2004 | SANDRA BLAKESLEE

[Monty22]

You are so misinformed. Welbutrin acts like a stimulant in cases. The typical SSRI is not, whatsoever.

I'm sorry you're dying.. I'd like to know if it's lung related to your pot usage.

However, don't make false claims about SSRI's and opiates please.

[A CA Guy]

To me they do. They are adding things to drugs that make them make you want to not take them if you ingest them in non-prescribed dosages.

I agree with you about pain. I know someone who was turned into a valium addict by a stomach operation. At one point 30 a day.
They give him his so much per month and that is that.
Had he had an ingredient that made over-use not so fun, he might have never become addicted.

The biggest lobby I see against this is, the Libertarian party IMO!

[Jorge]

As 94 shows, you're wrong a lot.

No it doesn't. It just shows that you want to believe anything you disagree with must therefore be a lie.

Too bad you have to point to other posts in order to compensate for your inability to articulate your own arguments..especially when you haven't even shown you understand them.

I doubt your claims 100%, I don't buy anything you say, except I do believe you were/are a pothead.

This is quite an admission since is completely discredits your objectivity in this or any debate.

You believe what a person says ONLY as far as you can use it to attack them personally? Pathetic.

This proves your duplicitous and dishonest nature.
I can tell you that even as a 20 year pothead, I have the faculties to kick your butt from one end of these board to the other on any debate topic.

[Monty22]

In your delusional mind, you've kicked my butt..

However, you made a ridiculous claim about how doctors never prescribe opiates and antidepressants.

So far, you're batting 0.

Typical pothead.

[Jorge]

Even so, emotional trauma needs to handled with therapy or SSRI's typically. Using opiates for it is, frankly, the stupidest thing imaginable.

Why? If opiates can help a person psychologically as at the same time it is aleviating their physical pain..what is wrong with that?
Killing two birds with one stone?

You're solution is to add yet another drug because you are too upset that a person who has experienced some terrible trauma or pain, could ever dare feel any "high" from a drug. Incredible.

[Monty22]

The 'high' leads to addiction. We want neutrality. SSRI's offer that.

Feeling euphoric is not a medicinal thing. It's not even a part of this thread.

We're trying to talk about improving medication to avoid addiction. You come on with this notion of how getting off on the medication is good.

Well, sorry. That's not medicine, that's an agenda.

[Jorge]

You are so misinformed. Welbutrin acts like a stimulant in cases.

Have you ever taken Welbutrin? I have.

It was like taking speed. It IS a stimulant as MOST antidepressants are.

That's how they work.

I'm sorry you're dying.. I'd like to know if it's lung related to your pot usage.

No it isn't related to pot smoking. I already told you I stopped habitual pot smoking over 15 years ago.

However, don't make false claims about SSRI's and opiates please.

What difference could it possibly make to you? You wouldn't know what I posted is a false or true claim about combining opiates with antidepresants.

[Monty22]

I've taken Welbutrin, it made my heart feel like it would explode.

I've also taken Paxil, Serzone, Zoloft, Effexor, and Lexapro. Only Lexapro's been good for me.

I was on Paxil and given large amounts of Lortab for tonsil surgery, which kinda blows away your argument.

I'd really like to know if your current problems are pot/lung/cancer related.

[Ken H]

"Jorge was referring to an acute traumatic situation needing acute relief. How long does it take antidepressants to begin working?"

Short term benzodiazepine treatment may perhaps offer some help.

So you want to add another addicting and mind altering drug to the mix?

Even so, emotional trauma needs to handled with therapy or SSRI's typically.

Maybe for longer term if the emotional trauma persists, but that was not what you were responding to.

You advocated antidepressants for "a person who's had some traumatic injury that's scared the crap out of them and put them in a state of mental trauma as well.

Do you still stand by your position with regards to using antidepressants for acute emotional or mental trauma after a traumatic injury?

[Monty22]

I stand by acute treatment with benzos, for 3 weeks prescribed max.

Simple really. SSRI's at the time of trauma to start, benzos up front and tapered off quickly after 3 weeks.

Why's that so hard to understand? It's common practice.

[Jorge]

In your delusional mind, you've kicked my butt.. However, you made a ridiculous claim about how doctors never prescribe opiates and antidepressants.

Actually I have... because doctors have prescribed me both antidepressants and opiates.

MOST antidepressants are stimulants and would not be prescribed along with opiate painkillers. That is a dangerous combination.

Of course if we're talking about non-opiates like aspirin or tylenol or simple muscle relaxers, antidepressants will not have a conteractive effect.

So far, you're batting 0.

Really? I've had treatment for these drugs you know NOTHING about, but am batting 0?

Are you trying to make me laugh on purpose or what?

Typical pothead.

I already told you that I was a pot addict from 15 years old to 35 yrs. I turn 50 in June. It's been years since I was a pothead.

You know this. Yet you keep posting that I am a pothead.

You are not only a liar but you are totally pathetic in your personal attacks on those who disagree with you.

[eno_]

From my experience, pro-druggies are the same as pro-islam people. They are knee deep into it, and have an agenda.

Monty, unless you are teatotal, you're a hypocrit.

Alcohol causes 90% of all addiction and mortiality and mobidity due to drug use.

A fatal dose of alcohol costs less than $20 and is readily available.

As for an agenda, mine is simple: When the Fedgov sticks its nose into places it does not belong (and you are codially invited to explain why it took an amendment to implement Prohibition but not to enable the Drug War), it should get cut off.

As someone who is strongly pro gun rights, you should also understand what unenumerated rights are. DO you?

[Monty22]

"Really? I've had treatment for these drugs you know NOTHING about, but am batting 0? "

How do you know that?

You're clueless. You're exposing your ignorance of benzos, SSRI's, and opiates, and their mixed use.

Why are you fighting it?

I'd again like to know if you're having lung problems, that you publically displayed, and publically said you were a heavy pot user.. If you're going to insult me, and say these things?

[Monty22]

"Alcohol causes 90% of all addiction and mortiality and mobidity due to drug use"

C'mon, give me a source!

[Ken H]

I stand by acute treatment with benzos, for 3 weeks prescribed max.

Fine, but mightn't those people be getting high?

Simple really. SSRI's at the time of trauma to start, benzos up front and tapered off quickly after 3 weeks.

Are you telling me that someone with an acute injury who has acute emotional trauma should be started on SSRI's? Shouldn't you wait a few days to see if it goes away?

Why's that so hard to understand? It's common practice.

Just so I'm clear. You are claiming it is common practice to begin SSRIs for emotional trauma at the time of the acute injury.

Do I have that right?

[Jorge]

We're trying to talk about improving medication to avoid addiction. You come on with this notion of how getting off on the medication is good.

YOU are the one talking about how there must be NO psychological effect accompanying pain killing meds and I am telling that you are wrong.

ANYBODY who has encountered SERIOUS physical truama and pain will tell you that the psychological effect of the "high" from the pain meds was a big part of the relief.

In any case, I'm sure you will have no answer to this either, and will only be able to shriek "pothead" at me AGAIN. LOL

[Monty22]

Your avoidance of the topic you brought up speaks volumes. Utter ignoring it.

If we're going to be honest, as I was with my anti-depressant/pain killer treatment (which you said 'NO' doctor would do!(LOL)) why don't you answer my questions about what your current illness is.

[Ken H]

"The leading causes of death in 2000 were tobacco (435,000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths), poor diet and physical inactivity (400,000 deaths; 16.6%), and alcohol consumption (85,000 deaths; 3.5%). Other actual causes of death were microbial agents (75,000), toxic agents (55,000), motor vehicle crashes (43,000), incidents involving firearms (29,000), sexual behaviors (20,000), and illicit use of drugs (17,000)." NOTE: The study's authors decided to count 16,653 deaths from alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes under motor vehicle crashes rather than under alcohol consumption. Previous mortality estimates have done the opposite and counted such deaths as caused by alcohol consumption. Source:  Mokdad, Ali H., PhD, James S. Marks, MD, MPH, Donna F. Stroup, PhD, MSc, Julie L. Gerberding, MD, MPH, "Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, pp. 1238, 1241.

You all can do the math, but it looks like eno_ is real close.

Now get this--

(Average 1982-1998): According to Canadian researchers, approximately 32,000 hospitalized patients (and possibly as many as 106,000) in the USA die each year because of adverse reactions to their prescribed medications. Source: Lazarou, J, Pomeranz, BH, Corey, PN, "Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: a meta-analysis of prospective studies," Journal of the American Medical Association (Chicago, IL: American Medical Association, 1998), 1998;279:1200-1205, also letters column, "Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients," JAMA (Chicago, IL: AMA, 1998), Nov. 25, 1998, Vol. 280, No. 20, from the web at http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v280n20/ffull/jlt1125-1.htm

And Monty wants to add benzodiazepines and SSRI's on top of pain medicine for acute emotional trauma from an injury.

[eno_]

Monty is one heck of a lost soul.

Check out his profile claiming to be such a IInd supporter.

Doesn't he know that narcs and gun-grabbers are peas in a pod?

[eno_]

So now that you have the numbers, let's address the hypocrisy thing: Do you drink?

And how about nicotine? Smoker? That's an even worse killer.