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To: CasearianDaoist
They also have limited blue water reach. We need to get on top of this technology too but the nuke mafia in the Sub force has always obstructed any attempt to build this smaller class of subs.
The US is a blue-water navy. We need subs to project power, not act as a intelligent minefield.

One day one of them will sink a carrier.
Possible. Subs have sunk fleet carriers before (the HMS Ark Royal, the IJN Taiho, the IJN Shokaku, the USS Wasp...) However, Having our own SKK's with AIP technology will not help until they have longer range and are faster. Until then, nuclear subs will have a clear advantage, especially for the US navy.
Our new Virginia class SSN's were designed with littoral combat in mind.
The Littoral Combat Ship will have a few modules, including one for anti-sub warfare.
I don't see one of the new subs catching a carrier group off guard soon.

20 posted on 04/23/2004 11:54:32 AM PDT by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: rmlew
I am neither a dolphin, a black shoe or an expert but I hear that the Virginia is no match in stealth with these new German boats, and this comes from a source that has been in Nato exercises with them. When they go into their fuel cell only mode they are quite difficult to detect. The Virginia still has a mechanical drive (later ones will have electric drives) and at very low speeds can they use convection in their reactors instead of pumps. There is also a radiological signature with reactors if one can get close enough. Given the right circumstance the German boat has the advantage. The Euros are also quickly closing in on our sensor technology.

As to the LCS. they are only building 56 if they get funding - and this may come down to a choice between the DDX and the LCS. In they do go ahead with the original buy the plan is to put two on the each carrier group and two on each of the planned Expeditionary Strike Groups (these are essentially jazzed up MEUs) and they have twelve of those planned - they are basically replacing the Fast Frigates. Subtract out training boats and various TDYs and there are not a lot of them to go around. The ASW capability of the LCS is specifically designed for the littoral; there is some blue water capability but that is not the primary mission of the ship. Two to a carrier group is hardly enough to stop a large and determined pack.

These German boats can go on diesel for about 30 days and could probably stretch it to 45 days by clever use of the fuel cells. In an initial battle that is more than enough in the beginning of battle to carry the fight out of the littoral into the deep watter and take out a carrier group.

I am less optimistic than you about this.

It is interesting that you mention then LCS for in this case the surface combatant folks saw that the Euros had the tech lead here and sought out some help. We would be well advised to do the same with these new boats. It is not a case of either one or the other. We do not have the capabilities to design or build them now and we clearly should for many reasons. We really should be in this platform niche and in this commercial marketspace as well. In the future we may find that there is a way to merge this technology with smaller reactors. Not to do work it this area just because of a prejudice in the sub mafia against it is foolish. It also may be a economical way to have more boats. There is no need to have just one class of attack boat.

So I stand by my statement. I would also assert that the submarine force is way two small and needs to go back to 100 or so attack boats. In fact our whole fleet is way too small and the planned 375 ship navy will not cut it.

The day will come when we actually have to protect our sea lanes in war time and we will find that we shall not be able to do it.

21 posted on 04/23/2004 1:04:00 PM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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