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To: bluecollarman
bluecollarman said: "For whatever reason, at least 12 years after the incident, John Lehman, SecNav 5 Feb 1981 - 10 Apr 1987, signs the same citation. Either Kerry never received his medal at the time or he maybe he threw it away. "

I can believe that he never received it.

I was awarded a Commendation Medal ( I believe, for reporting to duty twice in succession in an unintoxicated state) for a period of time which ended in June. The certificate is signed over 90 days later. The certificate itself is boilerplate with a stamped signature for the Secretary of the Army.

My guess is that I could request a replacement certificate if this one was lost and that the replacement would be signed by whoever signs them now.

As for the "medal", all I got was the certificate. If I want the medal, I can buy one through any of several sources. There may be a process whereby I can request the medal from the Army and they will send it.

bluecollarman also said: "The amendment (DD215), among other things deletes the Vietnam Service Medal and replaces it with the Vietnam Service Medal with 4 bronze stars."

Recently I became curious as to what awards I was entitled to wear. I believe that the "bronze stars" referred to here are indications of the various "campaigns" during which one served. The dates which constitute particular campaigns are a matter of public record. I doubt that a person could be "in-country" for only four months and be entitled to four such bronze "devices". Kerry's people may be counting on the confusion with the "Bronze Star" medal, which is a separate thing.

This latter item probably deserves more attention than the post-dated certificate.

208 posted on 04/22/2004 6:48:57 PM PDT by William Tell (Californians! See "www.rkba.members.sonic.net" to support California RKBA.)
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To: William Tell
>
bluecollarman said: "For whatever reason, at least 12 years after the incident, John Lehman, SecNav 5 Feb 1981 - 10 Apr 1987, signs the same citation. Either Kerry never received his medal at the time or he maybe he threw it away. "

I can believe that he never received it.
>

Aren't the pictures of him having it pinned on? Doesn't that constitute "receiving it?"

215 posted on 04/22/2004 6:51:45 PM PDT by Owen
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To: William Tell
No...I was quoting another poster from another board.
246 posted on 04/22/2004 7:06:50 PM PDT by bluecollarman
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To: William Tell
William Tell [Hey, that's me!] said: I doubt that a person could be "in-country" for only four months and be entitled to four such bronze "devices".

Since Freeper "deport" posted Kerry's service timeline, I decided to look up the VietNam campaigns. What I found, including relevant dates for Kerry is shown below:

Kerry's service in the Tonkin Gulf seems to have qualified him for two campaign stars, since Kerry spent at least one day in VietNam during each of two campaigns.

For Kerry's later service, it may be the case that Naval river operations entitled Navy personnel to be included in the Army campaign.

Thus it would appear quite legitimate that Kerry is entitled to wear the VietNam Service Medal with four bronze star devices. That he would request an amendment to his DD214 to reflect the campaign dates seems a waste of tax dollars to me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Start Campaign - Tet Counteroffensive (Army, Navy, USCG): January 30 to April 1, 1968
     February 9, 1968 – [USS Gridley] spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, 
End Campaign - Tet Counteroffensive (Army, Navy, USCG): January 30 to April 1, 1968

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Start Campaign - Vietnam Counteroffensive, Phase IV (Army, Navy, USCG): April 2 to June 30, 1968
     May 27, 1968 – USS Gridley sets sail for the US
End Campaign - Vietnam Counteroffensive, Phase IV (Army, Navy, USCG): April 2 to June 30, 1968

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Start Campaign - Vietnam Counteroffensive, Phase V (Army, Navy, USCG): July 1 to November 1, 1968
End Campaign - Vietnam Counteroffensive, Phase V (Army, Navy, USCG): July 1 to November 1, 1968

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Start Campaign - Vietnam Counteroffensive, Phase VI (Army, Navy, USCG): Nov 2, 1968 to Feb 22, 1969
     November 17, 1968 – ... Kerry reports for duty ... Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam. 
End Campaign - Vietnam Counteroffensive, Phase VI (Army, Navy, USCG): Nov 2, 1968 to Feb 22, 1969

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Start Campaign - Tet 1969 Counteroffensive (Army, USAF, USCG): February 23 to June 8, 1969
     [Note: Source lists no Navy campaign between Feb 22, 1969 and Early April, 1969]
     Early April, 1969 – Kerry departs Vietnam
End Campaign - Tet 1969 Counteroffensive (Army, USAF, USCG): February 23 to June 8, 1969


324 posted on 04/22/2004 8:46:11 PM PDT by William Tell (Californians! See "www.rkba.members.sonic.net" to support California RKBA.)
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To: William Tell
The "V" device on the bronze star medal does not indicate 5 bronze stars, it indicates "valor" or earned under fire, as opposed to a bronze star with out "v" device. With out would be a clerk who served in a combat area, but didn't see combat, or a clerk in Guam that worked 18 hours a day for a year, you get the idea.

I know, I got one bronze star with a "v" device. No way did I get 5 bronze stars.
341 posted on 04/22/2004 9:05:18 PM PDT by Lokibob (All typos and spelling errors are mine and copyrighted!!!!)
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