Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[VeniVidiVici]

Pretty bad when the Globe is going after him too.

I haven't made it thru the whole thread yet. Any chance any of Kerry's medals were awarded due to this action on PCF94 on 26 January? (which he obviously wasn't a part of)

[Vermonter]

Sent Mr. Kranish a link to this thread

[Howlin]

I am the last person to ask that question. I'm on here trying to pick up all the information I can from the "experts" among us.

[Howlin]

Done.

[MJM59]

It was the same thing with Bush and the "where was he" concerning his reserve duty. I am just saying that you cannot throw stones when living in a glass house.

[Robert A Cook PE]

You didn't notice a few other things:

One. You CAN'T land on a carrier without the straps and flightsuit and helmet because of the impact G-forces from the tailhook and drag cables!

Two. You can't use the ejection seats and safety gear and survival gear (oxygen and intercom masks, life jackets, and flight boots) without harnessing up in the flight suits and safety straps....

Three. Look at the DISCOMFORT of wearing the tightly strapped parachute harnesses for several hours! (Do YOU want to wear one of THSOE strapped up through YOUR crotch for several hours just to "look cool"?

Even Condi had to wear the same flight gear.

Bush WAS a former USAF fighter pilot with several thousand flight hours in a supersonic, hot-shot, single seat, high-altitude USAF fighter armed with missiles and cannon training for combat interceptions in the stroshpere.

Do you seriously think any pilot of a USN dual engine "cargo" plane flying "flat and straight and slow" is NOT going to let him take the controls??????????????????

You think any USN pilot is NOT going to let a fellow combat-rated pilot of a different service NOT try a carrier landing????????????

[MPJackal]

"OK, someone needs to put up W's service record so we can compare the two. Seriously, give it up guys Remember how much everyone was up in arms when the folks on the other side of the fence were trying to do the same thing concerning the president's reserve record. If you want to do battle, Bush vs. Kerry, military service is a poor choice of a battleground. My military service record is more impressive than the president's."

Really? Put up or shut up.

Kerry is the one making an issue of his service. 4 months, 5 medals (Audie Murphy would be in awe) and an early return home on a dubious claim of a policy no one can find. Then he comes home and while still a Reserve Officer lies before Congress and accuses the U.S. Servicemen of atrocities that never happened. Thus aiding the enemy. That could be called Treason Oh, lets not forget his involvement in a group that advocated assassinating U.S. Senators.

Bush does not go around bragging about his service. Kerry does and I can't figure out why. Three Purple Hearts for Scratches (Read the med report "Applied Bacitracine").

I have 21 years of service and Kerry makes me sick.

You and I seem to really be bumping heads today.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Bush is NOT in any glass house.

He served. Got promoted. Got paid.

No questions.

(Other than from prejudiced democrats who don't want to understand that it was Kerry who left his assigned duty station EARLY three times (from the Gridley - to go to Swift boat school, before Swift boats were in close riverine combat!), then from Vietnam after only 115-some odd days, then from his cushy admiral's aide billet to go run for office.

Without his (apparently padded) Vietnam record to lean on, Kerry is nothing but another extremist liberal from Boston.

[Citizen Soldier]

He had it when he threw another soldier's medals over the White House fence didn't he? That was during the LBJ or Nixon era.

[Citizen Soldier]

He had it when he threw another soldier's medals over the White House fence didn't he? That was during the LBJ or Nixon era.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Sobering.

I've got to look very carefully at the actual wording of the three Silver Star citations Kerry told the Navy to write, but some of this "action report" is remarkably like what is in Kerry's Silver Star citations.

Except those three versions are for action on Feb 28, 1969.

But the words and phrases seem to be almost identical.

(Makes you wonder who copied what when.)

[MJM59]

I had no idea we were bumping heads. At any rate, I am not falling for all of the Kerry PR blitz BS either. What irks me is that Bush backers are doing the very same thing that they were accusing the Kerry folks of doing a number of months ago concerning the presidents record as a reservist.

Bottom line concerning their military service, Kerry was in-country, under fire. That much, I admire. As for that crap he spewed afterwards, he needs his butt kicked for. Bush on the other hand was in the Texas Air National Guard. It would be like me trading war stories with an Indianapolis survivor.

[Gargantua]

"My military service record is more impressive than the president's."

Really? Let's see it, Top Gun. 'Put up or shut up', I think you said...

;-/

[idkfa]

No, they are not identical signatures. There were two issues:

First was the identical signatures on Kerry's two documents. They are likely rubber stamped or auto signatures, probably not a big deal.

The second was to properly identify those signatures on Kerry's citations by comparing them to known signatures of John Chaffee's and John Lehman's. A fellow Freeper scanned his Navy Unit Commendation from 1986 and the signature is indeed Lehman's. Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy during Kerry's Vietnam tour, Lehman wasn't until the 80's so Kerry had his citation reissued for some reason. Speculation was that there was language added in the 80's version that made Kerry look better in preparation for the senate and presidential campaigns. What happened to his original citations?

[hobson]

Posted by kcvl here.

December 2, 1968 – (Purple) Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first combat related injury.

February 20, 1969 (Purple)– Kerry and crew involved in combat; Kerry receives second combat injury – Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh.

February 28, 1969 (Silver) For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission.

Another account of the same event:The Long War of John Kerry Admiral Elmo Zumwalt later joked that he wasn’t sure if he should give Kerry the Silver Star or court-martial him for his actions on February 28, 1969. Kerry had ignored standard operating procedure as his squadron ferried troops up the river that day.

March 13, 1969 (Bronze and Purple)...Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety...

[Robert A Cook PE]

Almost, but it is actually worse!

Kerry had his same Silver Star citation written, reviewed and signed three times after he left Vietnam.

Copies exist (posted on this thread!) of three versions of the same 28 February (Silver Star) action signed by Vice Adm Zumwalt (Commander, Naval Forces Vietnam), and another version by Admiral Hyland, Commander-in-Chief, US Pacific Fleet, and a third version signed by John Lehman, Secretarty of the Navy under Reagan some 15 years later.

Each version showers more and more praise on Kerry, and each ignores and reduces teh praise for rest of the boats actually under fire and attacking the enemy.

[kabar]

Only IF you receive a four-year scholarship. (That's how I got my USN commission.

Me too. I also had a four year obligation, which was changed to five after I was on active duty.

Speaking of the Navy Reserves. I downloaded a copy of Kerry's Jan 2, 1970 release from active duty. Previously, there had been some speculation about Kerry's status during the period 1970-72, which was the period of antiwar activities with the VVAW, Fonda, Ramsey Clark, et al. Kerry lists his Naval Service on his website as being 1966-70 active duty and 1972-78 US Navy Reserve. The following is contained in his release from active duty memo:

You are advised that your release from active duty does not terminate your status as a member of the U.S. Naval Reserve. On the day fllowing the effective date of release from active duty...you will resume the status of a member of the Naval Reserve on inactive duty. While on inactive duty your are subject to involuntary recall to active duty to the extent authorized by federal statue.....

In the event you plan travel or residence in foreign countries for a period in excess of 30 days, notice of intent will be submitted to the command having custody of your service record. Such notice should include destination, expected duration of the travel or residency, and forwarding address.

Kerry was a member of the inactive reserve until July 1972 when he transferred into the standby reserve. So he was meeting with the Vietnamese Communists in Paris and taking part in VVAW antiwar activities while fulfilling his inactive USN reserve commitment. Now I see why he conveniently leaves out that fact when providing a history of his military service.

[Professional Engineer]

Prince John,

and the Sheriff of Nottingham,

are seeking to depose the rightful king, who has been fighting a Crusade!

[MJM59]

No. Read my post. I did not say put up or shut up. And yes, I do consider my nine years on ACTIVE DUTY more impressive than Mr. Bush's reserve service. I've passed more sea buoys than he has telephone poles.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Got through to Neal Boortz in his 12:00-1:00 (Eastern) time slot on the radio.

Was on-line with Neal for about ten minutes discussing these revised Silver Star citations, Kerry's early departure from Vietnam, his early departure from active duty, and his disgraceful action in pretending to throw his medals away. At the end of the interview, Neal asked me to fax him the three versions of Kerry's Silver Star award that were displayed earlier in the thread.

Thanks to all who helped find the sources, reviewed them, and who helped US (Free Republic members!) who now have this story in front of the national press.

Again - THANKS!