Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[boxerblues]

I've been trying to get though this thread with my morning coffee. It would be a shame if it turns out Jf'nK lied about being a hero.

[devolve]

Medals could be bought by anyone thru MO military supply until the late 1990's I believe.

I recall that decorations were on display for sale at the PX's at Jackson and Benning.

Then some in Congress jumped on it after some books on phony vets and decorations owned and/or wore by civilians or military that never served in combat.

Such as Kerry's VVAW buddy Al Hubbard and many others in the "Winter Soldier" scam which never produced one signature from anyone for the DOD investigation.

[xzins]

I just retired 2 years ago, and I could have walked into any clothing store and purchased just about any medal...they were on the rack. I'm fairly certain the MOH was not present.

I never really paid attention to the presence/absence of the Silver Star since I hadn't earned one. However, in a large military community, I wouldn't be surprised to find a few folks who had, and retirees who had, so its presence in clothing sales wouldn't have surprised me.


Let me check the online PX/clothing sales to see if they can be purchased via the net. I'll get back with you.

[boxerblues]

You can still buy most medals on the net, some require the correct paper work to be sent in first. We have been trying to replace my father & father in laws medals, unit patches etc. it fairly easy to do.

http://military.usmedals.com/medals.html?s=army&p=all&id_medals=0423MI385190

http://www.house.gov/curtweldon/hr2561medalofhonor.htm

[torchthemummy]

Amen!

[XBob]

348 - It is a PDF version released by Kerry.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/military_records.html

Look at it, the second page.

It appears genuine to me, a DDForm 214, typed on a typewriter as they did in those days.

[xzins]

I just checked and included the silver star pictures from the PX webpage. I can buy the ribbon (class A wear) and the miniature medal for formal uniform (blues, dress/mess) wear. I don't see anyplace that I can replace the actual medal. I'm fairly sure there's a way to do that, but it's probably through DA with proof offered. One would have to submit the orders approving the award, and then I'll bet a replacement would be right on its way.

Which would be an interesting question: Did Kerry ever resubmit for his medals? There might be a record. Did he lie about not throwing his own away, and is instead lying about how he still has them?

[xzins]

see #427

[boxerblues]

We've been able to get the actual large size medals, you have to look around I know military .com has them as does legion.org has links to order them.

[mabelkitty]

Wow. You are right.

[kabar]

I got the dates of Kerry's service on the Gridley from his evaluation repors, which re the best source.

[kabar]

Why/how is a Silver Star certificate/citation changed in this manner? As stated earlier on this thread, most of us, and especially veterans, have assumed that a military award/citation was written up for one time and one time only by a single authority. Are we mistaken? We are not dealing here with casual words but with carefully selected words that have meaning and ramifications.

The way the system worked when I was on active duty was that the award was submitted on a prescribed form and went through an approval process. The nominator usually wrote up a synopsis of the award (citation), which could fit on one page and be placed on a single page for display and framing purposes. The final approving authority could edit the citation, not usual, for various reasons. However, the citation should bear some resemblance to the actual write up. Hyland could have edited Zumwalt's citation, but I have no explanation as to why Lehman made the slight change to Hyland's. The Bronze Star nomination remained unchanged.

While we can quibble about the significance of the changes, I think we are missing the forrest for the trees. The big question is what are the circumstances surrounding Lehman signing these citations and did Kerry request replacement medals after stating that he never threw his away. Kerry has some 'splaining to do.

[Conspiracy Guy]

You hit that nail on the head except OBL is alive and being held in the undisclosed shed in my undisclosed backyard until the time is right.

This picture is for illustration only. This is not Conspiracy Guy, this is not the undisclosed shed or the undisclosed part of the undisclosed backyard.

[dalebert]

and now Kerry is on the wrong boat in January. Someone else had boat 94 in January during battle that Kerry claims to have been involved in.

[Timeout]

For the record:

DISCREPANCIES NOTED IN KERRY'S RECORDS
Ex-skipper says website wrong
Michael Kranish, Boston Globe, 4/23/03

[dalebert]

Thanks for posting this.I am trying to find out if Kerry claimed(scratch) injury on the 29th.

[mtntop3]

Reasons assuredly exist for the two additional write-ups for Kerry's Silver Star - each write-up more laudatory and subtly changing the orginal in both tone and message. The public should be told the reasons. They may be entirely benign. To directly, or indirectly, bring about - or condone the bringing about of - these changes for enhancement of one's award/citation certificate would not only be unaccceptable: it would be scandalous. (To view the three versions, see Post #172). This issue is much larger than a possible, genuine medal throw-away: he would state on the latter, in reply, that he simply regretted throwing them away.

[R. Scott]

Now ain’t it a terrible thing that a staffer’s thumb accidentally rubbed real hard and often across the signatures and other pertinent data before scanning?

[kabar]

I don't have a problem with the diffence between Zumwalt's citation and Hyland's. It could be that Zumwalt's approval was not final, so it went up the chain to Hyland who changed it for the final award. If you notice, Zumwalt's citation is on two pages. It is interesting that Kerry does not include the Zumwalt citation on his website.

[R. Scott]

Most official signatures on orders and other large volume documents are made either with a stamp or a automated signature machine.