Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[Truth29]

Don't put too much into the fact that the signatures are identical. A lot of government agencies used to use (and may still use) a device called an autopen or sigmac. This machine actually signs each document with a type of pen and is legally binding. It is a method to give an original looking signature rather than a stamp, but can be used for mass production of documents, such as certificates or letters to constituents.

[kcar]

BTTT

[Ramius]

Have you even bothered to read ALL of the threads about Kerry's medals?-- "Prettied up"? The man wrote up his own medal reports and there isn't another vet, not even Audy Murphy, who garnered THREE Purple Hearts, silver and bronze stars,in four months for scratches and no, NO time missed from serving.

Yes, I have. I only qualified my remarks because I am extremely loathe to question the valor of any serviceman, democrat or otherwise. This stuff matters. To question the duly earned citations of a serviceman is not something to be undertaken lightly.

That said, I agree that there are bizarre irregularities in this record. Maybe it is nothing, but maybe it is something. If the reports are true, I am personally offended by somebody that puts in citations for his own purple hearts for insignificant injuries.

If his citations are true and correct, then we should-- we must-- drop the matter completely. I will not be a party to the vilification of honorable service-- even if the serviceman in question is John Kerry, someone for whom I have no other reason to have any respect for.

If it turns out, however, that the citations are not in good order and that there is unearned embellishment of a service record for political gain... then this is the most vile and obscene violation that I can imagine.

[SW6906]

Lookee here. This might pan out to be something, be the first on your block to know about it.........

[Robert A Cook PE]

No.

Kerry ran home to get an admiral's aide billet in New York, leaving Vietnam after some 105 days.

THEN he left THAT duty station in NY a year EARLY to go run for Congress.

Kerry left his duty station early TWICE.

[Robert A Cook PE]

So when was Hyland CINCPAC?

[kabar]

There are no dates on the citations, but Kerry received the medals contemporaneously with his service. There are pictures with him getting it pinned on--at least the Silver Star. Lehman's signature on the award more than a dozen years later is indeed suspicious. I don't know the regulations on who must approve the awarding of the Silver and Bronze Stars, but I find it hard to believe that SecNav must approve them. Maybe it is required for replacement awards since the original commanders are no longer around, i.e., Hyland and Zumwalt.

[William Tell]

bluecollarman said: "For whatever reason, at least 12 years after the incident, John Lehman, SecNav 5 Feb 1981 - 10 Apr 1987, signs the same citation. Either Kerry never received his medal at the time or he maybe he threw it away. "

I can believe that he never received it.

I was awarded a Commendation Medal ( I believe, for reporting to duty twice in succession in an unintoxicated state) for a period of time which ended in June. The certificate is signed over 90 days later. The certificate itself is boilerplate with a stamped signature for the Secretary of the Army.

My guess is that I could request a replacement certificate if this one was lost and that the replacement would be signed by whoever signs them now.

As for the "medal", all I got was the certificate. If I want the medal, I can buy one through any of several sources. There may be a process whereby I can request the medal from the Army and they will send it.

bluecollarman also said: "The amendment (DD215), among other things deletes the Vietnam Service Medal and replaces it with the Vietnam Service Medal with 4 bronze stars."

Recently I became curious as to what awards I was entitled to wear. I believe that the "bronze stars" referred to here are indications of the various "campaigns" during which one served. The dates which constitute particular campaigns are a matter of public record. I doubt that a person could be "in-country" for only four months and be entitled to four such bronze "devices". Kerry's people may be counting on the confusion with the "Bronze Star" medal, which is a separate thing.

This latter item probably deserves more attention than the post-dated certificate.

[Robert A Cook PE]

So how is Kerry claiming to have been wounded on April 17?

He had already left the boats by March 15 to get transferred home claiming three wounds!

[Mo1]

I believe the signature on Kerry's Citations are probably correct, he probably ordered replacements that required the current Navy Secretaries Signature.

I agree

But the thing is .. he told a reporter that he didn't throw his medals .. that he threw someone elses

Smells of a double lie there

As for being re-assigned ... didn't he have some kind of meeting with some top officer while he was over there .. then shortly after that he rec'd is last purple heart?

I thought I read something about that

[rolling_stone]

Here's my guess .. he did throw his medals on the capital steps and then asked to have them replaced and that is why Lehman's name is on the document

Wasn't it his Senate Office were those medals showed up again?


I don't know the answer but your post bears repeating, it could be where the puzzle pieces fit...

[Joe_October]

That's not John Kerry! That's Arnold Rimmer!

[Ethyl]

Is this the same John H Chafee who is a senator???

Don't know, but the current senator chafee is lincoln, his dad was in there before. Rhode Island Senators, so I would bet that they would give the Mass. Senators any thing they want. They were and are both RINOS.

[ShandaLear]

You know what? I think it's a big mistake to go down this road with Kerry's medals and service. It was a mistake for them to do it to Bush and it's a mistake for us to do it to Kerry. All we are doing is drawing attention to it. I would rather that Kerry be the only one to drone on about it. He does a better job of making himself out to be a total fool than we ever could.

[Owen]

>
bluecollarman said: "For whatever reason, at least 12 years after the incident, John Lehman, SecNav 5 Feb 1981 - 10 Apr 1987, signs the same citation. Either Kerry never received his medal at the time or he maybe he threw it away. "

I can believe that he never received it.
>

Aren't the pictures of him having it pinned on? Doesn't that constitute "receiving it?"

[commish]

"There are TWO Silver Star citations in the PDF from kerry's site, One signed by Adm. John Hyland as CINCPAC... Now, that also is curious as Admiral McCain (the senator's) father was CINCPAC '68-'72"

So when was Hyland CINCPAC?

That is the big question now. And, I think the answer goes to my suggestion that Kerry has been Glory Hounding his Certificates. Others accused him of "Prettiing up" his Awards.

I would be interested to see if Hyland was CINCPAC around the time of one of Kerry's campaign's.

I think Kerry has been bumping his certificates up to get better and better SIGNATURES on them. After all, an Award presented by the SECNAV sure is a lot more impressive for a candidate to flaunt about than one signed by his Theater Commander.

What we have here is good old fashioned PADDING ONE's RECORD.

[kabar]

Lehman was SecNav Feb 1981 - 10 Apr 1987. More than likely, Kerry was burnishing his image for his Deputy Governor race in Mass or his Senate run in 1984. As much as he obsessed over his medals, I bet he received them at the time. Despite his denials, maybe he did throw them away in 1971.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Kerry was actually infamous for his agitated protests in front of both Gen Abrams (Army head in Vietnam) and Admiral Zumwalt.

he was at several meetings with both in Saigon protesting the war, how we fought it, and how it was run.

Takes a bit of a mess to get a very junior officer clearly remembered BY both the general and the admiral in charge of a war!

Do you recall Patton and Ike BOTH, for example, distinctly complaining about the same junior officer while they were conquering Germany?

[mystery-ak]

I've been following the thread......very interesting!

[kabar]

CORRECT CINCPAC