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Yeah I guess the Muslims really had a nasty paramilitary organization in Eastern Bosnia. That's why they lost the place in about six weeks! That's why street gangs were initially assigned to protect Sarajevo. That's why Izetbegovic called on the JNA to help after Arkan moved into Bileljina. That's why the Muslims lost 70% of Bosnia to 31% of the population. You honestly don't think I see the flaws in your argument?

Does that sound like a government preparing for war???

Both sides collected weapons and formed units prior to 1992.
The difference is JNA tanks/rockets/guns/troops vs. Muslims with hand-held weapons. The fighting in Spring 1992 had a predictable outcome.

You're right in that Serbs' rights were not guaranteed in Croatia or Bosnia (esp Croatia where some Ustashe symbols were brought back). I myself would probably have taken up arms against Turjman and co. But when Serbs respond by lashing out as they did you shouldn't be surprised when your claims of victim fall on deaf ears. I agree that the Croats should have been under sanctions. But I can guess why they weren't: Vukovar and Dubrovnik. When you claim vitimhood then don't pummled towns and cities with heavy guns.

Serb nationalists truely came accross as clueless in these wars. NO sense of Public Relations whatsoever.

I have yet to see evidence of large groups of mujahedin fighters arriving in Bosnia before the Serbs attacked. Even you concede that "some" arrived in 1991. Not exactly a new Taliban goverment in the making.

Ever stop and consider WHY Oric and company launched their attacks from Srebrenica? Being surrounded on all sides and cut off from aid shipments, they raided Serb areas to seize guns and food to fight on against Mladic who had every intention of overrunning the area. A typical attack would drive off or kill Serb defenders (such as at Kravica in 1993) and the Muslim torbani (bag people) would move in after to plunder all they could and kill whoever was left.

After these attacks Mladic and especially local Serbs wanted the Muslim men dead. If he gave a rats behind about "Western public" I doubt he would have seized UN hostages and walked over the UN in Srebrenica and Zepa. And the "Big Serb defeat" didn't occur until a month later at Krajina and Bihac, plus NATO air attacks.

"So, far about 350 bodies were found to have their hands cuffed. All the rest were muslims shot dead in fightings."

So unless a soldier has his hands bound he must have been killed in combat? There are local Serbs who claim to know of THOUSANDS being killed, how locals said to "grab your gun, our five minutes has come." The Muslims internal conflict was of a low scale and wouldn't have put a huge dent in the total nunber of killings.

So Drazen Erdemovic (who claimed "only" 70 kills) is not reliable witness because he's Croat? Then I guess Fikrit Abdic can't be a reliable witness against Sarajevo cuz he's Muslim? There were Serbs, Croats and Muslims on all sides of the war and some took part on crimes against their own kin. Even if you disregard his claims you've still got to deal with many others who claim to know of mass killings (far greater than 350 killed).

But then if these FR message boards have shown me anything it's that one must never underestimate the nationalism in the Balkans and the ability to deny ANYTHING at all costs.

But I can guess why they weren't: Vukovar and Dubrovnik. When you claim vitimhood then don't pummled towns and cities with heavy guns.

Vukovar was peaceful until Croat paramilitaries and police started blowing up Serb restaurants and houses and arresting and torturing Serbs, then throwing their bodies in the Danube. Tomislav Mercep was the head of these arrest/torture/kill operations. After Vukovar, he did the same in Gospic. One of his men, Miro Bajramovic, confessed, and not under duress, to killing 72, mostly Serbs, with his own hands and being responsible for the deaths of 86 there in Gospic. This man is free in Croatia today. The mainstream media never mentions this man or the killing he ordered. Only one of his men was responsible for almost twice the among of the alleged Racak massacre, yet no one cares a thing. So Kosovo Albanians are worth more than twice as much as Croatian Serb civilians? The truth is that the US, Germany, and Britain wanted the Serbs killed and cleansed in Croatia, as it stands by as they're killed in Kosovo, because it makes their designs in the Balkans easier. The international community wants the Serbs very oppressed and/or killed - especially in areas targetted for separation.

I'm completely exhausted after a marathon day of teaching and witnessing the brilliance of Javier Vazquez, and your posts deserve more than the smattering I'm trickling out right now. I'll try to get some sleep and respond accordingly tommorrow. In the mean time, this here Serb feels that you bring some valid points to the table and I wish you would post to the Balkan threads more often.

That being said, I don't completely agree with all of your points and I feel the truth about the nature of the Balkan Muslims probably falls between the point of view that Bosnian/Albanian Muslims = Al Queda and the point of view that Bosnian/Albanian Muslims = benevolent beer swilling, pork gobbling, love kittens.

You are obviously thoughtful, sincere, and are striving for objectivity at great lengths. Don't give up and don't go away.

But then if these FR message boards have shown me anything it's that one must never underestimate the nationalism in the Balkans and the ability to deny ANYTHING at all costs.

That's great food for thought for everybody - even Americans (if you subtract the in the Balkans) on the FR message boards dealing with the "War on Terrorism".