Posted on 04/17/2004 10:27:19 AM PDT by balrog666
Edited on 05/07/2004 6:09:57 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Fair enough, but for whatever reason, until you, I've never seen a creationist freeper ever willing to say a word against him. That's over a space of years.
Got any idea why this is so?
You have little problem here finding evolutionists who'll denounce, say, S.J. Gould's leftist views (or Haldane's outright communism) or who'll concede that Richard Dawkins' bashing of theists is gratuitous and annoying, and so on. But antievolutionists here seem unwilling to criticize a fellow antis on any grounds.
Well, what grounds would they use? They've abandoned all reliance on science -- as they would have to do in order to be creationists. Once you've tossed out all the evidence and logical conclusions that flow from examining it, what's your beef supposed to be based on? A fellow creationist simply can't be criticized merely because his claims are scientifically absurd. As long as a creationist adheres strictly to Genesis, that's pretty much all that matters.
First of all, even if your income tax payment is zero, you still pay taxes every time you buy something. All taxes, tariffs, fees and compliance costs are built into the price of any item or service.The only taxation 'opt-out' that ministers are allowed to claim is Social Security, which I personally would do instantly if I could.
Second of all, the only people who even approach a non-taxpaying status are those who actually receive money from the government, which is confiscated by force from We The People. These funds offset their tax bill hidden within consumption.
Third of all, you can change all this by supporting the fairtax. www.fairtax.org. All these hidden taxes are frontloaded into a National Retail Sales Tax, so that everyone is fully aware of the true tax rate. The best part is that the IRS is abolished.
The real issue behind it all is CONTROL. The money is residual. We are kept in line by the perpetual state of jeopardy in which the IRS holds us all.
By taxing consumption instead of success, this economy would EXPLODE.
It's all about the money.
If he's not paying taxes on his personal income, he should be tarred and feathered by the IRS and locked away for a long time. I just don't know if that's the case. They haven't charged him with anything yet. He had trouble with the IRS two years ago too.
I don't know if this is IRS harrassment or if Hovind is a crook. I have seen people misusing churches and charities and I've also seen government ruin people's lives for the sake of making some low level bureacrat's statistics look better. Both senarios are very plausible.
True. It does appear that he is an embarrassment to creationist community for some of the arguments he continues to use.
I thought this was a link to a joke. Guess I shouldn't be surprised.
And if Bull frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their little rear-end when they landed.
"This is based on misperceptions," Stoll said. "They don't understand how the church is created and registered, how it operates under church law, which is entirely separate from secular authorities."
"- operate under an umbrella organization recognized by the State of Washington."
No seeing any properly followed procedures for churches and charitable organizations in that weasel wording.
Looks like the IRS is gonna own itself a dinosaur theme park.
I wouldn't be so sure. They haven't filed any charges. It's clear that he has legal representation and this is not his first clash with the I.R.S.
If memory serves me correctly a church doesn't have to file anything. And according to the article, they provided the IRS with state organizational papers. And a lot of churches operate retreats. It looks to me like his businesses all serve a ministerial purpose.
Now if he's taking a lot of personal perks on the ministry's dime and not declaring them as income, which is a common temptation then the I.R.S. should get him. But it looks to me like the IRS is on a fishing expedition, since they haven't charged him yet. According to the article, the IRS has got one ex-employee who complained. That could easily just be a disgruntled employee who imagined impropriety was going on.
I'm not defending the guy...but I'm not rushing to judgement either. Let's wait and see if the IRS actually has enough to convict him with.
I'm sure he'll get an correction article when the find out everything he's doing is within the letter of the law. [/sarcasm]
No one celebrates a failed witch hunt.
This comment isn't worth the bytes necessary to store it. What arrguements are you refering too. Have you actually checked his page www.drdino.com, or watched up to date videos of his seminars? Or have you called in to his radio show to argue with him?
I'm not particularly picky, so do you want the tar, or the feathers? ;)
Seriously, why not have a look at Hovind's own words on the subject? The page that this comes from appears to be down at the moment. Curiously, it was up when I looked yesterday, but no matter - you can still see Google's cached version. Some choice excerpts:
There are over 100 taxes listed in the Internal Revenue Code books that I have on my shelf and nearly 50 different forms referred to in these books. These are all approved by congress. None of the taxes or forms apply to an individual's earnings.
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I sincerely believe that I am not a person required to file a Federal Income Tax Return. This belief is a result of extensive research that I have done. I have also sought the advice of professionals in the field (IRS enrolled agents, CPA's and lawyers) and they have told me I am not required to file any forms with the IRS. (copies of their professional opinion letters to me can be obtained from my office for $10) In addition to this I have sent letters to the IRS asking about my status (taxpayer or non-taxpayer) and what tax I owed and what form I was to file. By their non-reply within the 20 days required by law they have also told me I was not required to file any forms or keep any records. Moreover, this research has convinced me that the incomes of most U.S. citizens and residents living and working within the Fifty States are constitutionally non-taxable and are not the subject of the income tax laws of the Internal Revenue Code and its implementing regulations. Therefore, the filing of a Form 1040 U.S. Individual Income "Tax" return is strictly voluntary in most cases.
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If someone asks you if you are a citizen of the United States, be very careful how you answer the question because there are several "United States's" as follows. Pay close attention to the spelling and capitalization in the definitions.I am a citizen of the united States not any of the others above. Claiming to be a citizen of one of the others may cause someone to assume authority over you that they would not otherwise have.
- United States or United States of America-- The Federal entity defined by article I, Section 8, Clause 17 (1.8.17)
- united States (of America)-- One of the fifty sovereign states.
- United States citizens--District of Columbia citizens.
- UNITED STATES OF AMERICA- Plaintiff pleading in a case having the venue and jurisdiction originating in the Philippines. Ref: Title 48 (1441 i)
- UNITED STATES -- Plaintiff pleading in a case having the venue and jurisdiction originating in the District of Columbia. Ref: Title 48 (1441 i)
Some taxes are mandatory. As many experts understand the laws, the payment of the so-called "income tax" is also being paid voluntarily by millions of duped Americans. Unless you are "liable for" a tax because you are involved in the manufacture of tobacco products, alcohol or firearms or are a withholding agent for persons earning foreign income (see #5 and #6 below) or you have income from one of the sources listed above, there is no need to file a return or keep any records.
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It is not necessary to fear the IRS. Understand the laws and obey them. If you are "liable for" a tax then pay it. If they contact you be sure it is in writing not on the phone or at the door and always challenge their jurisdiction. Make them show you what statute makes you liable. I have not filed a 1040 form or kept tax records for over 25 years since no law requires me to do this. Call the IRS and tell them to arrest me if I am breaking a law!
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5. The 1040 form is for agents who withhold taxes for people earning foreign income. This can be seen by looking up the cross-reference for the OBM # at the top of the 1040 form. I am not such a person. There is no form for an individual earning money in lawful ways in the united States because congress knows such a tax would be un-constitutional. For me to fill out and sign the 1040 form "under penalty of perjury" would be a lie and therefore a sin against God.
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10. If you write the IRS under the freedom of information act (FOIA) and ask for your Individual Master File (IMF), (be sure to ask for both files) they are required to send them to you. When it comes it will be in code. You must have a special book (Several of the people on the enclosed list have the book) to decode the file. I have been told that one of the codes on this form is the IRS code for drug dealers from the Virgin Islands. The IRS lists most people that way to make it appear that they have a right to assess taxes on you. They must fool their own computer into accepting information on you. (By the way, I have never taken or dealt in drugs and have never been to the Virgin Islands.) The IRS wants you to volunteer and tell them you are "liable for" a tax. Then, they have authority to do many things to you.
And so forth and so on, complete with approving quotes of Irwin Schiff and the like...
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