Victor Davis Hanson: The Fruits of Appeasement

City Journal ^ | Spring 2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

[hershey]

Wow!!!! V.D hits another one out of the park!

[hershey]

Well, it's frustrating. We all want Bush to seriously kick ass in Iraq. V.D. Hanson lays out a blueprint we should be following regardless of the bad press we're sure to get both here and abroad.

[hershey]

Uh, I thought we were supposed to post excerpts so people would read the entire articles at the original site. Half the time we don't know who's sending nasty notes to JimRob about making sure we excerpt. IMHO Quidnunc is doing a service by finding Hanson's articles, which are like a cool drink in the desert of liberalism. Thank God for Hanson, and thanks, Quidnunc. Don't be mad, Gritty. If I've got it backwards, what the heck.

[hershey]

Thanks, Quidnunc. Post away. I'll read them all, gratefully.

[Gritty]

are you saying that Free Republic is exempt from federal law or are you saying that Freepers should become outlaws, thereby placing themselves in jeopardy of being hauled into court?

Not at all.

Free Republic has already gone through a lengthy lawsuit over just this subject. The lawsuit has been settled, as you probably know, and there are restrictions.

Which position are you taking?

I take the Free Republic position, which is 'excerpt' when necessary, otherwise post the entire article as legitimate for public use and free discussion.

Unneccessary excerpting tends to stunt discussion as well as often loses the rest of the article when it becomes a deleted link. When it is posted here, the full text can be referenced at any time in the future, not just if the originator happens to leave it on his website.

Posting rules as well as publications/sources which must be excerpted are posted in Reference For Excerpting Articles - Please Read And Bookmark, which Jim Robinson has authored.

I check this listing before I post. It takes a few minutes, but avoids hassling everybody. I find I tend to pass by many articles if they are unneccessariily excerpted and I'm sure others do also. If anybody is going to post, they need to do it as a service, not a disservice. You are obviously interested in posting and good at finding articles. Most would appreciate it if they don't feel hassled. If you follow Jim Robs' guidelines, there should be no problem.

[quidnunc]

Gritty wrote: Free Republic has already gone through a lengthy lawsuit over just this subject. The lawsuit has been settled, as you probably know, and there are restrictions.

Which it los — and make no mistake, when you settle and agree to the other fellow's demands it is a loss.

So in this light it is clear that posting copyrighted material in toto is illegal!

Which is what FR is conceding when it restricts posts of copyrighted material to exerpts upon request.

[Gritty]

Please see my Post #25.

[BartMan1]

Ease up, Hoss. I like the exerpt, when it's a long article like this.

[Gritty]

I like the exerpt, when it's a long article like this.

Maybe so. But I daresay you are in the minority.

Quidnunc excerpts every article he posts. That's his M.O..

So what if it is a "long" article? If you don't want to read the entire thing, you can either skim it or rush to the bottom and get on with your business of posting what was in the first two paragraphs. But if it is fully posted instead of merely excerpted, it is much more likely to get more detailed and intelligent discussion, more exposure and more readers.

Check that observation out for yourself sometime.

[Utah Girl]

Long read, but worth the effort.

[ConservativeStLouisGuy]

Quidnunc,


There you go again....


"Did I forget to post the full article again? D'OH!!"

To All,

Please be patient with Quidnunc -- as Ma Richards said to Governor George W. Bush when she was running against him in Texas, "He can't heppit!!".....hehehehe

FReegards,

ConservativeStLouisGuy

[quidnunc]

Why don't you take a shot at answering the same question I asked Gritty and Brian Allen.

Are you saying that Free Republic is exempt from federal law or are you saying that Freepers should become outlaws, thereby placing themselves in jeopardy of being hauled into court?

To which one of these propositions do you subscribe?

[ConservativeStLouisGuy]

quid,

I happen to follow the same posting guidelines (regarding excerpting articles) that Gritty does....here is the list I use...

XV. Thou shalt not unnecessarily excerpt.

435 Production Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
5800 Sunset Production inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
A & J Publishing, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Academic Software, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Alliance Media, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
American Education Resources, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Andon Colleges, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Anthony Schools Corporation Washington Post Company Affiliate
AUI Company (Formerly Auction Universe, Inc.) LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Baltimore Newspaper Networks, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
BlackVoices.Com Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Bowater Mersey Paper Company Limited (Nova Scotia) Washington Post Company Affiliate
BrassRing Canada, inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
BrassRing Careers Events, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
BrassRing Gmb H Washington Post Company Affiliate
BrassRing Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Business Technology Specialists, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
CA Acquisition Corp. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Cable One of Fargo, a North Dakota Limited Partnership Washington Post Company Affiliate
Cable One, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
California Academy of Merchandising, Art and Design, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
California Community News Corporation LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Candle Holdings Corporation LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Capitol Fiber, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Channel 20, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Channel 39, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Channel 40, In. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
CHI Acquisition Crop. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Chicago Avenue Construction Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Chicago Classified, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Chicago National League Ball Club, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Chicago Tribune Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Chicago Tribune Newspapers, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Chicago Tribune Press Service, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
ChicagoLand Microwave Licensee, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
ChicagoLand Television News, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Classified Ventures, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Courant Specialty Products, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
DBS Acquisition Crop. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Dearborn Financial Institute, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Dearborn Financial Publishing, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Dearborn Publshing Group, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
DEST Education Corporation Washington Post Company Affiliate
Diana-Quentin, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Direct Mail Associates, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Direct Marketing Distribution, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Distinction, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Distribution Systems of America, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
eScore.com, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
EZ Buy & EZ Sell Recycler Corporation LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
EZ Buy & EZ Sell Recycler Corporation of Arizona LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
EZ Buy & EZ Sell Recycler Corporation of Georgia LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
EZ Buy & EZ Sell Recycler Corporation of South LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
EZ Buy & EZ Sell Recycler Corporation of Texas LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Fortification Holdings Corporation LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Fortify Holdings Corporation LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Forum Publishing Group, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Gold Coast Publications, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Greater Washington Publishingg, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
GreenCo, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
HBC Acquisition Corp. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Heart & Crown Advertising Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Hesser, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Homestead Publishing Co. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
I.H.T. Corporation U.S., Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
ICM Acquisition Corp. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Information & Communication Resources Corporation LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
InfoServe of Connecticut, inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
International Herald Tribune, S.A.S. (France) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Iowa College Acquisition Corpoation Washington Post Company Affiliate
JDTV, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Kaplan (Canada) Ltd. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Kaplan (PR) Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Kaplan Professional B.V. Washington Post Company Affiliate
kaplan Professional, France Washington Post Company Affiliate
Kaplan, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
KHWB Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
KSWB Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
KTLA Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
KWGN Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Legislate, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Leonards Training Programs, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Leylor Limited LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Los Angeles Times International, Ltd. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Los Angeles Times Newspaper, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Los Angeles Times-Washington Post News Service, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Lundy Associates, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate Magic T Music Publishing Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Maric Learning Systems Washington Post Company Affiliate
McDuck Distribution Company/Marketing Service LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Mosby-Year book Europe, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
MTSX Acquisition Corp. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Nebraska Acquisition Corp. Washington Post Company Affiliate
NEOCOMM, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
New Hampsire Acquisition Corp. Washington Post Company Affiliate
New Mass. Media, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
New River Center Maintenance Association, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Newday, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Newpapers Readers Agency, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Newscom Services, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
NewsMedia Source, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Newsprint, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Newsweek Budget Travel, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Newsweek Productions, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Newsweek Services (Canada), Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Newsweek Services, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Newsweek, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
North Michigan Production Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Oak Brook Productions, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
OIOPT Acquisition Corp. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Oklahoma Broadcasting Company Washington Post Company Affiliate
Orlando Sentinel Communications Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Palo Vista college of Nursing & Allied Health Sciences Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Patuxent Publishing Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Payne Lendman, inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Personnel Communications, inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post Newsweek Tech Media Group, Inc. (formerly Post-Newsweek Business Information, Inc.) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newseek Cable of North Dakota, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newseek Stations, San Antonio Holdings (Limited), Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Productions, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, Florida, Inc. (Stations WJXT-TV, Jacksonville, and WPLG-TV, Miami, Florida) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, Houston GP, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, Houston Holdings (Limited), Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, Houston, LP (Station KPRC, Houston, Texas) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, Houston, LP (Station KPRC, Houston, Texas) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, Michigan, Inc. (Station WDIV-TV, Detroit, Michigan) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, Orlando, Inc. (Station WKMG-TV, Orlando, Florida) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, San Antonio GP, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, San Antonio LP (Station KSAT, San Antonio, Texas) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Post-Newsweek Stations, San Antonio LP (Station KSAT, San Antonio, Texas) Washington Post Company Affiliate
Premier DataVision, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Publishers Forest Products Co. of Washington LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Quest Education Corporation Washington Post Company Affiliate
Relcon, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate Robinson Terminal Warehouse Corporation Washington Post Company Affiliate
SACMD Acquisition Crop. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Score Educational Centers, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Score Holdings, inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate Scottsdale Educational Center for Allied Health Careers, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Self Test Software, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
Sentinel Communications News Ventures, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Shepard's Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Signs of Distinction, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Southern Connecticut Newspaper, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Sun-Sentinel Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Terra-Starr LLC Washington Post Company Affiliate
The Baltimore Sun Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
The Daily Herald Company Washington Post Company Affiliate
The Daily Press, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
The Employment Connection, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
The Gazette Newspapers, Inc. (includes Comprint, Inc., a commercial printing operation) Washington Post Company Affiliate
the Hartford Courant Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
The Morning Call, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
The Potomac Holdings Group, Inc. (formerly Moffett, Larson & Johnson, Inc.) Washington Post Company Affiliate
The Renter, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tillema Publishing, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Times Mirror CT, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Times Mirror Land and Timber Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Times Mirror Multimedia Corporation LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
times Mirror Payroll Processing Company, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
times Mirror Services Company, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TM Holdings, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TM Properties, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TM ShepCo, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TMD, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TMLH 2, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TMLS 1, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TMNJ, Inc. (Formerly National Journal, Inc.) LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TMP Holdings, Inc. (Formerly CRC Press, Inc.) LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
TMS Acquisition Corp. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Towering T Music Publishing Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune (FN) Cable Ventures, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Broadcasting Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Broadcasting News Network, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune California Properties, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Denver Radio, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Direct Marketing, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Entertainment Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Entertainment Production Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Finance Service Center, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Interactive, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune License, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Media Net, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Media Services, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune National Marketing Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Network Holdings Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Publishing Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Television Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Television Holdings, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Television New Orleans, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Tribune Television Northwest, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Upper bucks Publishing Company Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Valley Classifieds, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive Company (formerly Digital Ink Company) Washington Post Company Affiliate
WBDC Broadcasting, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Westech ExpoCorporation Washington Post Company Affiliate
WGN Continental Broadcasting Company LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
Wick Holdings Corpooration LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
WLVI Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate
WPC Telecommunications, Inc. Washington Post Company Affiliate
WPIX, Inc. LA Times/Chicago Tribune Affiliate

Does the (excerpt) list you use jive with this one? Perhaps I need to update my list? Let me know, okay? :-)

FReegards,

ConservativeStLouisGuy

PS: We're on the same page when it comes to posting here at FR, quidnunc: to INFORM and STIMULATE debate on the issues of the day....it has always been my contention that an INFORMED reader can best be informed by knowing ALL the facts, ie, a FULL STORY -- when possible...

[ConservativeStLouisGuy]

see Post #33

[quidnunc]

The Free Republic posting guidelines are internal guidelines only and have absolutely no force in law.

Moreover they will not shield you from liability to the merest extent in case of a lawsuit.

Here's what the Stanford University has to say:

Copyright infringement occurs whenever copyrighted material is transferred to or from a website without authorization from the copyright owner. Transferring information to and from a website can be done in a few ways. A user can take information from a website by copying or downloading. Or, material can be placed (sometimes called "uploaded" or "posted") from a user's computer onto the website. Any time copyrighted information is transferred to or from a website without authorization from the owner, the owner may have a copyright infringement claim against the copier, the website or both. We'll discuss how to limit liability and what to do if confronted by an angry rights holder.

Furthermore, if you land Free Republic in the soup you have agreed to reimburse them, to whit:

Indemnification: User agrees to indemnify and hold harmless Free Republic and its owners, officers, management, employees and providers from any loss, liability, cost, damage or suit (including attorneys' fees) for breach of this agreement, copyright violation, libel, slander, misuse of data, errors or omissions, or any other legal theory, to the proportionate extent caused by or contributed to by any act or omission of user, in whole or in part, including without limitation any and all such claims brought by user or any third party or lawsuit. Free Republic is not responsible for and is not liable for any loss of data or loss of access to data for any reason. Free Republic is not responsible for and is not liable for any unauthorized use of user account.

So if a copyright holder decides to go postal and the stuff hits the fan, you're right there in the soup with everybody else sitting in a federal courtroom in California being represented by a lawyer paid for out of your own pocket.

That's a risk I'm not willing to take.

[hershey]

Thank you for expanding on your position on posting. I generally chicken out and stick whatever I've heard in a reply to something. But I bookmarked your post #25, plus JR's page about posting and saved both on my desktop. I'll reference both before posting.

[hershey]

My original thought was if we exerpted, the original news outlet, whatever, would be happy to get a 'hit', someone new to read their stuff, see their ads, acknowledge directly that the article emanated from that site. I thought that's what they wanted.

[Gritty]

That's a risk I'm not willing to take.

That's your business.

But if you are such a timid soul, perhaps you should leave the posting to other, more robust, FReepers and stick to making comments or just reading the news instead of pretending you are making a worthwhile contribution.

[ConservativeStLouisGuy]

quidnunc,

I read your post and offer these few replies/suggestions/ruminations:

1. Almost to a tee, the articles I post (in full) are ones that aren't on the list of articles to be excerpted. As you could tell from the list of publications that do need to be excerpted that I posted (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1116034/posts?page=33#33(), my full posting do jive with it.

2. I re-read Jim Robinson's latest Updated FR Excerpt and Link Only or Deny Posting List due to Copyright Complaints (dated 4-14-04) and.....surprise!.....his list jives with mine too!

3. As you are no doubt well aware of, most of the full postings here on Free Republic are from Conservative-friendly sites like Town Hall, Rush Limbaugh, Agape Press, CNS News, American Spectator, Chron Watch, Front Page, Intellectual Conservative, Men's News Daily, New York Post, NewsMax, Stratfor, Drudge Report, WorldNetDaily, etc. I'll "take my chances" any day posting articles -- in full -- from those sort of websites.

4. Remember that it wasn't until the LA Slimes felt that 2X4 (that's been sticking up it's butt ever since they got on the anti-George W. Bush bandwagon) that they got all uppity and sued Free Republic -- and all that legal action ensued. Since then a lot of the other liberal online publications have also been "feeling their oats" and have followed suit....sure, their "legal threats" are something to consider, but, as I have said, I don't feel "threatened" by them as I don't post articles (in full) from their sites anyways.

5. I have been maintaining a sort of "unofficial archive" of Free Republic articles on my (free) website since 1999...and to that end I have been browsing FR articles ever since that time. Don't you think it is a prudent thing to have those FR articles saved for posterity (once the original link is no longer working) for all to see? It then becomes an issue of informing the masses (again, for posterity) rather than posting articles for the sake of a quick forum discussion (which is good in and of itself)....Speaking for myself, I don't have a lot of time to participate in the forums here at FR.....when I DO I try to contribute my two cents to the discussion as best I can -- and try to answer as many people who reply to me as humanly possible. By the way, here are the FR archives on my website (if you would like to check them for yourself):

Free Republic "All Things Political" Archives, 1999-present

Free Republic "Religion/Culture/Morals" Archives, 1999-present

There's probably a few other things I haven't talked about in this reply that I forgot to mention.....but right now those things escape me. :-)

Take care, quidnunc, and know we're fighting for the same cause here on FR: inform. Period. Okie-doke? :-)

FReegards,

ConservativeStLouisGuy