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To: El Gato
Amendment XIV: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside (prior to the 14th amendment, the Constitution did not explicitly define citizenship, but it did imply that a person born in the United States was a citizen, in the section requiring that only a "natural born citizen" or one a citizen when the Constitution was ratified, could become President. TFB for the Governator).

This is the 14th amendment. It was proposed before the war and contributed greatly to the hostilities. Before the war, a state, under it's power to determine the electorate, awarded citizenship, and these were, by virtue of state citizenship, US citizens.

The 14th amendment is the moving force behind the destruction of the form of government designed by the framers. It invalidated large sections of the state constitutions.

It placed individuals in direct line of fire from federal legislation, when before it's ratification, except for few exceptions, it could not directly affect individual citizens. The power of granting citizenship at the national level gave it that power.

This amendment is the single most cause of the cultural and social disintegration we see now. Shepardize it and see SC cases that condoned expansion of the national government previously denied.

However, legislation can be enacted under this amendment to modify the process of automatic citizenship for illegal alien mother that drop their babies between crop rows seeking to create an anchor for themselves and the rest of their family.

This is a vile and destructive practice which gains the country nothing but those who wish to suck off its bounty and owe allegiance only to their home country.

You support this fraud, evidently. So, I would not say that your allegiance to America is not close to perfect. Service in the United States Air Force Reserve means nothing to me. Live with that.

Did you, and your parents, come to this country legally?

1,010 posted on 04/08/2004 9:54:02 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
This is the 14th amendment. It was proposed before the war and contributed greatly to the hostilities

It was not proposed before the war. There was a proposed amendment just before the war, it was never ratified. It read:

No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.

The first drafts of what became the 14th amendment were not written until until Jan 12, 1866, well after the end of the war. It did not pass until June 13, 1866, and was not ratified until 1868. It was written in response to state and local governments in the South infringing upon the rights of the former slaves, most particularly their right to keep and bear arms. The banning of slavery was done by the 13th amendment, which was passed and ratified in 1865. Lee surrendered on April 9th, 1865.

History and fact checking are not your strong suite, are they?

You support this fraud, evidently.

I support the Constitution as written and ratified.

So, I would not say that your allegiance to America is not close to perfect. (Funny the USAF and DoD never questioned it when they granted me some pretty hefty security clearances) Service in the United States Air Force Reserve means nothing to me. Live with that.

I don't really give an ant's ass what it means to you, it means a lot to me, as does my oath of office to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. BTW, I did serve on active duty, as an officer, before becoming a reservist, and have been involved in suppling the US military with the best weapons and equipment I could devise ever since. (Except for the 18 months I spent in grad school)

Did you, and your parents, come to this country legally?

I was born here. My Dad was born in Montana, where his parents had gone to find work in the mines, and my mother was born in Nebraska. I don't know about my paternal grandfather, since he was adopted and since grandma left him after the third child in 3 years was born and I never knew him. He could have been an immigrant as could his birth parents, but it would have been in the 1880s or 1890s if that were the case. I know my maternal grandfather, also "adopted" but only by his stepfather, was born in the US, but not much more about him, although one or both of his parents may have had some Spanish ancestry, since they gave him the middle name of Carlos, but his adopted last name was Kimball, while his birth last name was probably Lamb. My maternal grandmother's family (Kunz) came from Germany in the 1860s and 1870s. Not sure when my paternal grandmother's family (Harrison) came from England, but I know her mother (a Lee) was born in the US as well, and I never heard any different about great-grandfather Harrison, but I know he owned several hundred acres of land in 1890s.

So I'd say your implication was way off base.

1,024 posted on 04/08/2004 4:40:41 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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