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Amish Man Who Refused Photo Sues Gov't
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| 4/2/04
Posted on 04/02/2004 4:41:25 PM PST by knak
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To: Agnes Heep
A photograph is no more a graven image than a reflection in a mirror.
What about photogravure?
41
posted on
04/02/2004 7:16:54 PM PST
by
aruanan
To: Ophiucus
The Amish are forced to live in our society much as the Natives were.
They need to litigate to be able to keep their schools, farms, and way of life.
Why don't you think a little harder about our sub-societies.
To: Hildy
Its differnet because if the Amish had folks in their religion that wanted to blow up things they would either turn them over to the authorities or hang them on their own.
I would not wish to treat Islam as a seperate threat and at a differnet level than other religions if I saw one single shred of evidence that the members of the mosques were turning in the extremists. But they aren't. The reason is plain as the Koran. The Koran teaches clearly that it is the duty of the Muslim in todays world to phsically attack the Christian Jew and Infidel "until they pay tribute out of hand". Now you'll find folks claiming that the Koran doesn't really teach that. These are just apologists for the terrorist and those who harbor them.
We know the profile of the terrorists and shoudln't waste time harrasing the Amish.
True not all muslims are terrorists and its probably true only a small number are. But until they police themselves we should focus on them and let the Amish alone.
43
posted on
04/02/2004 7:25:16 PM PST
by
festus
To: auntdot
And as soon as you allow someone to come in without a picture you are setting a precedent that will permit anyone, repeat anyone, to come into our country without necessary identification, merely because he/she declares religious freedom.Yeeah, you're probably right. Terrorists will just have to content themselves with walking across the border from Mexico.
44
posted on
04/02/2004 7:40:07 PM PST
by
templar
To: All
Let an Amish man in without a photograph today, it sets a precedent for others to do the same in the future. It's that simple.
No offense to the Amish man in question, but his suit is gonna get tossed out on its ass.
45
posted on
04/02/2004 8:22:16 PM PST
by
Belisaurius
("Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, Ted" - Joseph Kennedy 1958)
To: knak
Take a digital photo, which is by no stretch of the imagination a graven image, or kick the stubborn son-of-a bitch in the balls and throw him in a pile of horse dung. This is our country, and if you want to come here you come here by our rules. Sorry that thou hast to go home, or anywhere, and I don't care, but you have your rules and we have ours.
To: Possenti
Mine aren't and haven't been for years, because I am a more-or-less conventional Christian whose beliefs the ACLU and a thousand other groups abuse daily.
To: Pafreedom
You are unaware of our stupid court system, Set a precedent that one guy with a beard can come in without a photo ID and the stupid court system will conclude that every guy with a beard can come, and every woman with or without a beard can come, because they can't grow beards until they are quite old, if at all. This Amish guy may be just a victim of odd circumstances, but I believe that the Amish accept civil authority, and the fact that this Amish guy has filed a suit means he is not quite Amish, and the free ride that Amish generally get from the rest of us is jeapardized when they start mixing their way with that of the English.
To: cripplecreek
Hmmm, an Amish man with the name Mohammed Hussein. Something seems fishy.
49
posted on
04/02/2004 9:39:31 PM PST
by
beaversmom
(Michael Medved has the Greatest radio show on GOD's Green Earth)
To: knak
If you want to immigrate
You'all have to assimilate.
Nobody is FORCING him to immigrate, so if he doesn't like the rules regarding it, he can stay home, and his wife can join him.
Matter of fact, isn't it traditional for the Amish wife to join the husband, who makes (builds/buys) a home for her, rather than the other way around? In which case she should be emmigrating to Canada...
I'll have to check with the Little Ol' Schoolmarm, who used to larn them thar Amish in I-Owe-way.
50
posted on
04/03/2004 12:12:43 AM PST
by
ApplegateRanch
(The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
To: ApplegateRanch
Too bad the Amish don't vote. Talk about a Republican constituency.
To: Possenti
Who declared war on whom?
There's an awful lot of history there to just make simplistic statements like that. What planet are you living on?
Ever since the inception of the 'religion' of Islam, it has been a movement of warfare and aggression. It was used to forcefully unite the warring Arab tribes and then to hurl that united force against its neighbors to begin carving out the Islamic empire. In 624, Mohammed led his first raids for material gain and to expand power. By 632 when Mohammed died, dozens of brutal Muslim invasions and bloodthirsty conquests under Mohammed's leadership and direction had conquered most of Arabia and southern Palestine. These were holy wars to bring all that the Muslims surveyed under their fierce rule.
After Mohammed died, the new caliph, Abu Bakr, launched Islam into 1400 years of continual imperialist aggression and conquest. The bloody process of subjugation of all not Islam has been almost unbroken to the current war. In 637, Muslim forces subjugated the rest of Palestine - attacked the Eastern Roman Empire along its border at all points possible. After enslaving the native population, the Muslim forces continued in an unbroken series of wars to subjugate North Africa. The thousand years war continued until Spain and Portugal were enslaved and much of eastern Europe.
It was then that the Europeans finally united before their final destruction and began the first Crusades - a defensive war to regain the territory lost in war which had as a sole cause that the people attacked were not Muslim!
The dhimmi in Muslim ruled lands are absolute slaves - they do not have a right to even exist. No agreement with infidels is ever binding, they are less alive than animals, and no peace can ever be reached with non-Islam peoples because Islamic peace is only a ten year truce at most. A pause before continuing the attack.
This conduct is willed by Allah and in the commands of Mohammed. There are two house of the world - those of Islam and those who are not. Islam demands the death or utter enslavement of those who are not.
That is the "religion of peace" and that is how the war started - not the PC, revisionist crap of Islam is Peace and everything was fine until those mean old Christians and Jews attacked.
Bull - a psychopathic, savage rage of genocide blessed by divine will began the war over a thousand years ago.
52
posted on
04/03/2004 2:54:33 AM PST
by
Ophiucus
To: knak
53
posted on
04/03/2004 2:57:48 AM PST
by
Glenn
(The two keys to character: 1) Learn how to keep a secret. 2) ...)
To: Pafreedom
The Amish are forced to live in our society much as the Natives were. Oh give me a break! Have I wandered into DUmmy land?
When was there ever an Amish Trail of Tears? Did the US Cavalry round up stray Amish and herd the back to the reservation? Did I miss the last great campaign of Geronimo the Amish?
The Amish made a deliberate choice in life and belief to remain in a arbitrary semi-technical world of extremely slow change of a devotion through simplicity in life in the face of an ever complex world. There is no "forced to live in our society." They have communities from Pennsylvania to Kentucky and Illinois, some 22 states as well as Canada and Europe - and guess what, like any community, these communities have neighbors. No community is isolated and the Amish have never wanted to be isolated on their own secluded island. If anything, it would kill the tourist business.
They need to litigate to be able to keep their schools, farms, and way of life.
Past tense - they did go to court to essentially home school. They won. Game over. There's no big dramatic battle of oppression.
Why don't you think a little harder about our sub-societies.
There are no "sub-societies" except in the Leftist goal to Balkanize and destroy the one American society. In that society, one can find groups of people freely associating with each other as they see fit. No big force issues.
Perhaps you should think away from the Left and these little PC melodramas.
54
posted on
04/03/2004 3:21:55 AM PST
by
Ophiucus
To: Nakatu X
I doubt this guy's sincerity There does seem something not quite right with the claim. How is it ok for Amish to be photographed, even the old order, and have those pictures in ads and on their promotional websites but not be ok for an application. Is there a matching mugshot in police files somewhere?
I also like the part about - "In January, after the family visited Canada to see the man's sick father, the man was stopped at the border and told he could not return because he didn't have a photo ID.
The man was allowed back into the United States on Thursday so he can attend an April 21 removal proceeding.
Sounds like the government let him back in so they could kick him out.
If we let him get away with this all the terrorists will claim it's against their religion to be photographed, fingerprinted, etc.
And claim that we are infringing upon their religious freedom by preventing them from blowing up Jews and Christians.
55
posted on
04/03/2004 4:05:07 AM PST
by
Ophiucus
To: Pafreedom
Actually, I meant it as a joke. Lighten up.
56
posted on
04/03/2004 4:24:27 AM PST
by
dpa5923
(Small minds talk about people, normal minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas.)
To: aruanan
What about photogravure? No; same principle.
57
posted on
04/03/2004 5:43:35 AM PST
by
Agnes Heep
(Solus cum sola non cogitabuntur orare pater noster)
To: Agnes Heep
No; same principle.
Photogravure involves a form of engraving and, hence, an image that is graven.
58
posted on
04/03/2004 2:21:09 PM PST
by
aruanan
To: knak
Interesting article. While I admire the Amish in many ways, it seems to me (from my reading of the Scriptures) that they are being almost as legalistic as the Pharisees that Jesus rebuked. The two passages regarding graven images that come to my mind first off are from Exodus, chapter 20 (the Ten Commandments) and then from Leviticus, chapter 26, which reads:
"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God."It always seemed pretty clear to me that the prohibition against "graven images" was in regards to making them an idol and bowing down to worship them. I suppose that the Old Order Amish may feel that it is best to go one step further and remove any chance of accidentally making an idol, but, as I said, that seems pretty legalistic and not really what the spirit of the Word is trying teach.
I could be wrong on this, but that's just my two cents worth.
59
posted on
04/03/2004 2:55:09 PM PST
by
Pablo64
("Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.")
To: aruanan
Photogravure involves a form of engraving and, hence, an image that is graven. I guess I can't argue with that!
60
posted on
04/03/2004 3:37:51 PM PST
by
Agnes Heep
(Solus cum sola non cogitabuntur orare pater noster)
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