NH: Seized by the Manchester Police for Open Carry (vanity)

self | March 29, 2004 | Michael Pelletier

[B4Ranch]

"that sheep can’t tell the difference between the sheep-dog and the wolves, even though the sheep-dog would risk his life to save the sheep from hungry wolves."

This is one man who would very careful consideration to saving the life of a sheep.

Why? Because I do not trust the judgement of todays LEO's, even in non life threatening situations! It is too easy for me to imagine them viewing me as a wolf rather than a sheepdog and just firing at me without any warning. They have become the wolves in my eyes.

Citizen rights is not a prime consideration of their views as your experience should have taught you.

I hope you are successful in whatever avenue you choose to pursue this matter.

[coloradan]

If you know you're going to get engrossed in a book, you could back into a corner that forces anyone approaching you to do so face on.

[absalom01]

Dude,
You really gotta learn to watch your six.

[mvpel]

Tell me about it.

[mvpel]

That's a very good point, Coloradan, thanks!

[ArrogantBustard]

"cops, do not like citizens armed and do not want to see your weapon"

If that's true, we need a different breed of cops. If that's true, the cops we have now qualify as "domestic" enemies.

[Final Authority]

Great letter. I commend you for your dignified and measured response. With respect to open carry, what are the conditions required for open carry? For example, how does one legally practice open carry in a vehicle? Does the magazine need to be separate from the weapon? Can it be a rifle or a shotgun as well as a handgun? I read reviews and condensed opinions of the laws and I am unsure of the practical enforcement of the open carry concept. Can you fill me in or direct me to a resource where my questions can be answered?

My friends in MA and Montana can't believe we have open carry in NH and I informed them recently that the state general court will entertain a bill allowing every non-felon to carry a concealed weapon without a license but only in NH. I think this is great. The way I look at it, the criminals are already carrying, license or not. We might as well have a countermeasure.

[MileHi]

It is my understanding that open carry is now legal everywhere in Colorado. Is that how you read it? I wonder how that would play here in the metro area.

[Rebelbase]

"Oh, wait a minute, wrong kind of cival rights. I guess you're on your own.........."

Yep, if the plaintiff is a white male, he is SOL on anyone taking him seriously from a civil rights viewpoint.

But then I hope he has the cajones and access to $$ backing to file such a suit because its only through such efforts that anything will ever change.

[mvpel]

Great letter. I commend you for your dignified and measured response. With respect to open carry, what are the conditions required for open carry? For example, how does one legally practice open carry in a vehicle?

Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it!

The controlling statute on vehicular carry is RSA 159:4, as follows:

159:4 Carrying Without License. – No person shall carry a loaded pistol or revolver in any vehicle or concealed upon his person, except in his dwelling, house or place of business, without a valid license therefor as hereinafter provided. A loaded pistol or revolver shall include any pistol or revolver with a magazine, cylinder, chamber or clip in which there are loaded cartridges. Whoever violates the provisions of this section shall, for the first such offense, be guilty of a misdemeanor. For the second and for each subsequent violation of the provisions of this section, such person shall be guilty of a class B felony, provided such second or subsequent violation has occurred within 7 years of the previous conviction.

In short, this means that a CCW is required in order to legally carry a loaded sidearm in a vehicle.

Sans license, this seems to be able to be taken two ways, depending on how you take the meaning of "with" - does a magazine with rounds in it in the glove box while the pistol is on your hip count as "a magazine with" the pistol?

Considering that "cylinder" and "chamber" are by definition attached to the firearm, and that an empty revolver with a speedloader sitting next to it would meet the requirements of this law, a colorable argument could be made that "with" means "inserted," that you don't have to pop all the rounds out of the mag every time you get in the car.

I don't have WestLaw access anymore, so I can't look up cases to this effect, but I'm sure there are a few here and there that would clarify this question, or if there's any firearms law experts around, they might be able to answer it.

[af_vet_1981]

Very well written letter !

[coloradan]

Yes, it's legal, but I would expect the full JBT treatment for any peasant attempting to exercise his rights in the serfdom of Denver.

[MileHi]

Yes, it's legal, but I would expect the full JBT treatment for any peasant attempting to exercise his rights in the serfdom of Denver.

I almost never go to Denver, I haunt the 'burbs to the west. I have been considering testing the waters.

[Copernicus]

Since others have covered "condition white" the next significant point maybe more relevant at this point:

You appear to be caught between the "rock" of lawful open carry and the "hard place" of "armed to the terror of the public"

As you are probably already aware "armed to the terror of the public" is one of those abominable legal theories developed to negate the otherwise ordinary activity of open carry.

I am not sure what it is called in your state but since several cell phone callers were sufficiently alarmed to generate a Police response equivalent to "Officer Down" or "Felony Stop Underway"you may have met the requirements.

I am glad to learn no one was hurt.

Best regards,

[mvpel]

Unlike North Carolina or New York, for example, the state of New Hampshire does not have any statutory provision along the lines of "going armed to the terror of the public." There is no such crime. There cannot be, because open carry is protected by the State Constitution.

In my letter, I mentioned two statutes that could be thought applicable at first glance: RSA 631:4 - "criminal threatening," and RSA 644:2 - "disorderly conduct" - and explained why neither of them were applicable to the situation.

RSA 644:13, "unauthorized use of firearms and firecrackers," doesn't apply either as that only criminalizes the discharge of a firearm within the compact part of a town.

Regardless of how thoroughly other people were wetting their pants, I was committing no articulable crime under New Hampshire law.

My mistake in neglecting to tuck in my shirt upon taking off my coat and thereby spooking the horses, while regrettable, was not a criminal offense.

In my view - as I mentioned in my letter - while the overreaction of my fellow patrons in making panicked calls to the police is understandable (given the drumbeat of mass-media anti-gun propaganda and the associated prevalence of the mental illness of hoplophobia), the execution of a "felony stop" by the officers was at best a serious overreaction, and representative of bad judgement on their part.

[coloradan]

Please ping me to any thread or significant new post on this subject.

[StevenA]

"And remember, July 4 is New Hampshire Open Carry Day."

I like that idea :)

[mvpel]

The latest news - thanks to a respondant on TheHighRoad.ORG, I'm in touch with the office of a firearms law specialist in Concord by the name of Penny Dean, and have sent a copy of my letter for her review.

[Joe Brower]

Somewhat belated .

I'm glad that everything seems to be turning out OK. The fact that you obviously know the law and kept your composure better than all the so-called "professionals" put together always stands you in good stead in these situations. Well done, Micheal!

Please keep us advised of any changes in this matter, and let us know if there is any way we can assist.

[Wolfie]

Maybe you were in a know "high drug trafficking area", where stop and frisks are a way of life.