Politics of Water: Ancient Sea on Mars Begs Human Exploration

space.com ^ | 3/24/04 | Tarig Malik

[KevinDavis]

The discovery that a salty sea once covered party of the surface of Mars will have lasting effects on the future exploration of the red planet, according to scientists and policy experts inside and outside NASA.

[GeronL]

Uh Oh, what about the EMP????

[GeronL]

Orion, NERVA and beyond

[LibWhacker]

If the hull is 3 feet thick, solid steel?

I've read that there are no limits in principle on how large and heavy the ship could be. The hull could be as thick as needed to protect the crew from radiation, cosmic rays, etc. If you need three feet, they could do three feet. Need ten feet? They could do that, too -- in principle. 'Course, in practice, I'm sure it's a different story. :-)

How thick is the thickest plating ever used on a battleship, for example? I think I saw six feet somewhere. The cool thing about this is that much of technology that we use building large warships could be used to build these spaceships. Some new things would be needed, but much of the technology is already there.

[GeronL]

That last link I posted is very good. Its in 2 parts.

You'll want to save it and read them offline.

[GeronL]

The other ideas are good too. hehe. Its just that Orion is like a sledgehammer approach to this problem.

[LibWhacker]

I'll check them out, thanks! I've never heard of another scheme that would allow us to build really large ships on Earth and lift off into space with them. That's why I've always preferred Orion. I just can't imagine building a large well-shielded ship in orbit or on the Moon with present technology. Still, I'm always interested in ANY idea. Anything is better than nothing, as long as we get moving on it, that's for sure! And we've been spinning our wheels a lot the last 30 years or so, imo, so I'm ready to get moving. :-)

[LibWhacker]

There wouldn't be any solid body in the solar system we couldn't put a man on in short order.

Oops, I just remembered Venus!

[fatima]

Thanks for the ping Phil V.

[ASA Vet]

what the heck is so important about exploring Mars?

Long term it's important to the survival of the human species.
There will be, as in the past, nasty things hitting Earth large enough to end our civilization.
We must spread out enough that one hit can't take us all out.

[panaxanax]

"New sources of resources, for one thing."

We have all the resources we need right here on Earth. Ocean water contains enough gold to supply our needs. Wouldn't it make more sense to develop better methods of extracting AU from the water here than spending Trillions of dollars that we don't have to get it from Mars. That is, IF there even is gold on Mars. It would be cost prohibitive to "mine" Mars for gold etc.

"Gold and iron are just rocks, you know. Mars has lots of rocks."

So does Earth. The problem is that environmental groups are standing in the way of gold/silver/diamond exploration. If, for some reason we did manage to find gold etc. on Mars and successfully transport tons of it back to Earth the value of gold etc. would plunge. What would we have accomplished?

[r9etb]

Thanks for the ping, Phil. This article should make for a good discussion in my class tonight.

[irv]

There is nothing on Mars that would be anywhere close to valuable enough to justify the cost of obtaining it and transporting it to Earth.

So we'll use it there! Lift your eyes a little. Stop thinking small.

[irv]

We have all the resources we need right here on Earth.

Spain had everything it needed right there in Spain before sending Columbus out on his pointless little trip, too. If only they had listened to you ...

[RightWhale]

There are tons the robots cannot do that humans can.

Robots could be used by the private sector to develop business in outer space. If you're strapped for cash, human presence is impossible.

[nightdriver]

"NASA officials and scientists yesterday repeatedly stressed that additional missions, each more ambitious than the previous, will be needed to continue telling the story of Mars' watery past and to find out if life ever existed there."

It appears that the extremely dubious claim of the existence of water on Mars is being used to generate more funding for the space agency and its many layers of hangers-on.

There are many unanswered technical problems with the supposition of the evidence of water there. That doesn't seem to deter the drummed-up ethusiasm for trying to find the evidence of life there. If they can just make that claim, they think they can expound evolution and refute the creation.

[GeronL]

Robots could be used by the private sector to develop business in outer space

definitely

[Bambam131]

Hello everyone, my name is David Robinson and I see that you where commenting on my spaceship the USS Yorktown. If you think that this is just a take off of the Discovery 1 than you may want to take a look around my website, http://www.bambam131.com. You will find both those ships as well as many others that I have created using different 3D programs. If what you mean is that both ships have a sphere in front and a spine that separates the engines in back than you are correct but, you could say the same thing about cars too, all makes of cars are built on the same principles so I guess a Ford Pinto is the same thing as a Jaguar XJ? I hope that you will take a look around my site and enjoy the effort that I have put into creating my artwork.

Regards,

David Robinson aka: (Bambam131)

[RadioAstronomer]

If you think that this is just a take off of the Discovery 1 than you may want to take a look around my website, <"snip"> If what you mean is that both ships have a sphere in front and a spine that separates the engines in back than you are correct but, you could say the same thing about cars too, all makes of cars are built on the same principles so I guess a Ford Pinto is the same thing as a Jaguar XJ?

First off I do like your site. I am impressed with the 3D work you have accomplished. However, all that aside, Your "Yorktown" is remarkably similar to the 2001 ship. You even named the antenna structure (which is remarkably like the one from 2001) AE-53 where the 2001 antenna control unit was named the AE-35.

After taking another look at your design, like it or not, I still stand by my original comment. This is very close to the spacecraft from 2001.

p.s. You even have it designed for a Jupiter mission.

For anyone who want to determine for themselves:

http://www.bambam131.com/ussyorktown.htm

[Long Cut]

No need to go to mars to prove evolution. More than enough proof exists here on Earth.

However, it is interesting that creationists would use that as a counterargument to continued exploration of Mars. Perhaps they don't care to consider explaining whatever evidence could be found away?

[nightdriver]

"The discovery that a salty sea once covered party of the surface of Mars......."

Sorry. I can't grant the premise.

The vision of a salty sea on Mars is rather difficult to rationalize when the AVERAGE temperature on the planet is -80 degrees F and with its atmospheric pressure between 4 and 8 MILLIBARS, the boiling and freezing points would be very close together.

Water wouldn't stay liquid long enough to even percolate into the ground under conditions like that. It would stay as a supercooled vapor in the surrounding atmosphere.

But atmospheric moisture has been measured as only some 250 PARTS PER MILLION, so the conclusion is inexorably that there just plain is no (and most likely never was) significant amounts of water on Mars at all.