Film is likely to fuel a battle of the Alamo

San Antonio Express-News ^ | 03/21/2004 | Amy Dorsett

[SwinneySwitch]

The fate of the men at the Alamo was death and they faced it bravely, asking no quarter and giving none. The siege there ended on the dawn of March 6, 1836.

The massacre at Goliad occurred 3 weeks after the Alamo fell when James Fannin and about 300 men were executed on March 27. Santa Anna ordered the Texian medical staff at Goliad spared and sent immediately to San Antonio to treat the hundreds of wounded Mexican soldiers there.

[af_vet_rr]

I have not seen any post that considers the relationship of the Disney films of the late 1950's and Disney television of the 1960's and, their effect on the attitudes of the BOOMERS.

I think it's incredibly relevant and glad you brought it up. I grew up with Disney's version of Crockett and Boone, and I've got friends/relatives the same age who didn't have that influence, or were reading about Alamo history at an earlier age.

As I've read more and more about the Alamo, about Crockett, about Boone (I've known more than a few Texans who confuse the two), I've come to realize that Disney and John Wayne were way off the mark.

Nothing against Disney or Wayne, they did what they did because of constraints (time, technology, etc.) and because they were/are companies out to make a buck, and there is nothing wrong with it.

What is wrong is people who take their versions of those events/characters as being the truth.

The truth is, what actually happened, and the actual lives of Crockett and Boone are much much more interesting than anything you see in the movies or on TV.

I suspect Davy had no idea he would end up DEAD after this affair!

Hard to say. He and the other anglos that were riding to Texas to fight knew they were going to be outnumbered and heavily dependent upon one another. Those showing up at the Alamo knew that it couldn't be defended well. That makes it all the more interesting. I doubt any would realize just how important the Alamo and San Jacinto (and Goliad) would be to the United States in the future.

Thorton's Crockett says something to the effect of "If I was just plain old Davy from Tennessee, I might slip over that wall, but that Crockett fellow, people are watching him". That's not the exact quote from the movie (heard it in a preview) and Crockett probably didn't say that. I agree with it (the idea the writers/filmakers were trying to convey) and I don't agree with it.

From his writings and what others wrote about him at the time, he had a sense of responsibility, and he took it seriously that people looked up to him. When he was in office, he fought for things that were unpopular, even knowing he might be defeated in another election. People ignore/forget that. Back home he had been booted from office, but at the Alamo, people relied upon him, people stayed there because they believed in him, and I think he knew how important that was.

Some say that his legend drove him to stay there, even knowing he was going to die, that he was more worried about his legend and that running away would kill his chances of being elected again if he lived.

This was not Davy Crockett's fight before he showed up - he and the others that rode to Texas were illegal aliens in fact (an important aspect of the war that some overlook). Once he showed up he gave some Texians and Tejanos hope, I think he knew how important he had become. Had he decided "this ain't my fight, I'm not going to risk my life", he could very well have crippled the movement. He knew that, and he knew that his being there probably gave some men the courage and hope they needed to hang on and fight.

I'm a fan of Crockett, if you can't tell. In fact, I think his image was slightly tarnished by Disney and John Wayne in a way. I think he saw the bigger picture. I think he saw how important it was that he stay and fight, even though it wasn't his fight. It wasn't because of his legend, but because he saw that in the big picture, he was giving a much needed boost, both to individuals fighting, and to the movement as a whole.

His sense of responsibility to those men, even though they were few in number, was greater than any sense of legend. Maybe it's the fan in me, but I think he knew he was going to die, and I think he knew that if he had to die, he'd probably rather die there, with those few men who stood beside him. It was not the first time he faced death, so he probably had already prepared himself before then.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Say what you will about "The Napoleon of the West" but he did introduce chewing gum to the United States during one of his periods of exile. He fled to NYC after being overthrown.

If I am not mistaken he was actually helped by the US to regain power after his initial explusion.

[dsc]

"Check out Duval though as Robert E. Lee. He was perfect in my book."

Yeah, I have that DVD.

I don't care how good an actor a man is: a moral weakling can't play a hero, or even a good man.

[SwinneySwitch]

No comparison and I don't believe Davy had any tattoos.

[af_vet_rr]

Crockett was a man of outstanding integrity and courage. I believe he started out as a Jackson man and then was defeated when he opposed Jackson's "ethnic extermination or deprotation" policies east of the Mississippi River towards American Indians.

This is precisely why I don't think he was more concerned about adding to his legend, as some have argued. If anything, he used his legend to help Texas.

He fought fights in which he lost, in which he was outnumbered, but he didn't give up and his time in office showed he'd rather risk defeat than surrender his integrity.

He was the right man at the right time to help during Texas' war, and I think he knew that his simply being there gave courage to others. I would argue that he knew he was going to die, but that it was the best death a man of his courage and integrity could die.

I'll stop being a Crockett fanboy now :-)

[dsc]

"If I am not mistaken he was actually helped by the US to regain power after his initial explusion."

Santa Ana was ruler of Mexico on no fewer than nine separate occasions.

And yes, you are correct. During the Mexican-American war, when Zachary Taylor was stalled in the field and before Winfield Scott got going, President Polk fell for Santa Ana's promise that if he were allowed to return from exile unimpeded he would quickly come to terms and end the war.

Instead, of course, he took charge of the Mexican army and fought several battles against Scott--all of which he lost. (Why, oh why, do people still listen to diplomats?)

People whine about the "imperialist" treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, but it is worth noting that the war would never have occurred if the Mexicans hadn't contested the land between the Nueces and the Rio Grande--which belonged to Texas by treaty.

Think of it--if they hadn't been so hard-headed about that little strip of land, to this day California, Arizona, and New Mexico might look like Tijuana.

Just imagine how much better that would have been than having them fall victim to American "imperialism."

[Centurion2000]

bump ... this will be an interesting film.

[al_c]

I'll watch this movie for only one reason ... my brother in law plays one of the Lousianna Gray volunteers.

[al_c]

I'll watch this movie for only one reason ... my brother in law plays one of the Lousianna Gray volunteers.

[ZULU]

Daniel Morgan, Daniel Boone, David Crockett - men who exemplified everything that is or was, great about the American spirit.

Ordinary men who accomplished extraordinary things.

[al_c]

Lousianna Louisana.

Don't know how that double post happened. Sorry.

[Redbob]

Hallowed ground

[SwinneySwitch]

It's Louisiana, but Lousianna works for me too. The double posts occur because you're trying to do too many things at the same time! At least that's the excuse I use anyway.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Ain't it the truth. Then illegal immigrants from Guatamala and Nicarauga would be the hot issue.

[swampfox98]

Daniel Morgan, Daniel Boone, David Crockett - men who exemplified everything that is or was, great about the American spirit.

Today they would be portrayed as right wing extremists and racists. Imagine, actually fighting the Mexicans in order to protect America. Gosh, what sacrilege!

Now we are inviting the Mexicans to come in and take over our country, and those who oppose it are called the enemy.

[Cronos]

Hi all. I dunno too much about this and on another site some folks came back and said that the entire Texas alamo was nothing more than rebels and that should not be celebrated. Any Texans can tell me how to reply to that?

[Doctor Stochastic]

Tell them to study some history.

[ZULU]

"Imagine, actually fighting the Mexicans in order to protect America. Gosh, what sacrilege!"

Or anyone else for that matter.

One of the MANY reasons I HATE Democrats.

[SwinneySwitch]

Ask them if they celebrate the 4th of July? That was a bunch of rebels!