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To: Aquinasfan
Actually, the issue is a bit more complicated than that. Certainly, all groups (including the Samaritans) accepted the Torah but the concept of a tri-partite canon (law, prophets and writings) precedes Jesus by at least 100 years. There was likely some flexibility in the order of books in the latter prophets and especially the writings, but those that accepted a tri-partite canon, (which seems to include the Pharisees, Essenes and Jesus and his disciples) had pretty much the same set of scriptures as what is contained in the Hebrew Bible today. Jesus' reference in Luke to the blood of the martyrs from Abel to Zechariah may indicate already a Bible in which Chronicles was the last book. Jerome went back to the Hebrew Scriptures to make his translation of the Bible and argued that the earliest disciples of Jesus did not consider the apocrypha scripture, and that seems to be largely warranted. (The book of Enoch, a pseudepigraphical work, may have been considered scripture at Qumran and by some of Jesus' disciples.)
It's an interesting subject.
73 posted on 03/17/2004 5:03:55 PM PST by britishtim
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To: britishtim; Ann Archy
I'm no expert on the Septuagint versus the Hebrew canon, but you might find this NT reference to 2 Macabbees 7 (which is included in the Septuagint) interesting:

Hebrews 11


1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
2This is what the ancients were commended for.
3By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. 4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
5By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise...


31By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[5]
32And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets,
33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions,
34quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies.
35Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.


36Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
37They were stoned[6] ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
38the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.
39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised.
40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

2 Maccabees 7


1 It also happened that seven brothers with their mother were arrested and tortured with whips and scourges by the king, to force them to eat pork in violation of God's law.
2 One of the brothers, speaking for the others, said: "What do you expect to achieve by questioning us? We are ready to die rather than transgress the laws of our ancestors."
3 At that the king, in a fury, gave orders to have pans and caldrons heated.
4 While they were being quickly heated, he commanded his executioners to cut out the tongue of the one who had spoken for the others, to scalp him and cut off his hands and feet, while the rest of his brothers and his mother looked on.
5 When he was completely maimed but still breathing, the king ordered them to carry him to the fire and fry him. As a cloud of smoke spread from the pan, the brothers and their mother encouraged one another to die bravely, saying such words as these:
6 "The Lord God is looking on, and he truly has compassion on us, as Moses declared in his canticle, when he protested openly with the words, 'And he will have pity on his servants.'"
7 When the first brother had died in this manner, they brought the second to be made sport of...

After him they brought the sixth brother. When he was about to die, he said: "Have no vain illusions. We suffer these things on our own account, because we have sinned against our God; that is why such astonishing things have happened to us.
19 Do not think, then, that you will go unpunished for having dared to fight against God."
20 Most admirable and worthy of everlasting remembrance was the mother, who saw her seven sons perish in a single day, yet bore it courageously because of her hope in the Lord.
21 Filled with a noble spirit that stirred her womanly heart with manly courage, she exhorted each of them in the language of their forefathers with these words: 22 "I do not know how you came into existence in my womb; it was not I who gave you the breath of life, nor was it I who set in order the elements of which each of you is composed.
23 Therefore, since it is the Creator of the universe who shapes each man's beginning, as he brings about the origin of everything, he, in his mercy, will give you back both breath and life, because you now disregard yourselves for the sake of his law."
24 Antiochus, suspecting insult in her words, thought he was being ridiculed. As the youngest brother was still alive, the king appealed to him, not with mere words, but with promises on oath, to make him rich and happy if he would abandon his ancestral customs: he would make him his Friend and entrust him with high office.
25 When the youth paid no attention to him at all, the king appealed to the mother, urging her to advise her boy to save his life.
26 After he had urged her for a long time, she went through the motions of persuading her son.
27 In derision of the cruel tyrant, she leaned over close to her son and said in their native language: "Son, have pity on me, who carried you in my womb for nine months, nursed you for three years, brought you up, educated and supported you to your present age.
28 2 I beg you, child, to look at the heavens and the earth and see all that is in them; then you will know that God did not make them out of existing things; and in the same way the human race came into existence.
29 Do not be afraid of this executioner, but be worthy of your brothers and accept death, so that in the time of mercy I may receive you again with them."
30 She had scarcely finished speaking when the youth said: "What are you waiting for? I will not obey the king's command. I obey the command of the law given to our forefathers through Moses.
31 But you, who have contrived every kind of affliction for the Hebrews, will not escape the hands of God.
32 We, indeed, are suffering because of our sins...

39 At that, the king became enraged and treated him even worse than the others, since he bitterly resented the boy's contempt.
40 Thus he too died undefiled, putting all his trust in the Lord.
41 The mother was last to die, after her sons.
42 Enough has been said about the sacrificial meals and the excessive cruelties.


80 posted on 03/18/2004 5:48:12 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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