Post #1 The article
Post#3 "Are you suggesting Canada has done nothing?"
Post #25 "Canadian Conservatives are well aware of the damage Chretien and his liberal stooges have caused and we are working hard to oust them and then will try to rebuild the fences. Many small western Canadian businesses are seeing their American marketplace dry up in the wake of this debacle.
I am pleased that the poll shows the majority of Canadians look favorably on our friendship and that is a big positive. The truth of the matter is that other than Quebec ( which as little in common with the rest of Canada, let alone America)Canadians and Americans are very much alike. Chretien's Anti-American sentiment was a concession to quell Quebec separatiste's. This in turn was a betrayal and tainted the attitude of America toward all Canadians. A sad but I believe repairable situation. We are joined at the hip and further deterioration only serves the terrorists."
Post #36 (In response to Laotzu comment (insult)"What's to know? What's to respect? Nothing.")
"I guess you fall into that category that prefers to know nothing about it's northern neighbour. Perhaps we could dig up the bodies of the thousands of Canadians that died fighting for freedom in two world wars,Korea, with U.S forces in Viet Nam, Bosnia and Afghanistan and ask them why they contributed nothing to democracy."
Post #48 (in response to Laotzu's "Don't guess; read. Or, get someone that can read to do it for you, Eh!!.
I have provided the entire national history of Canada on this very thread.")
"Insult, the last resort of a fool."
Post#56 "Quid, this post does not support your theory. We did not turn our backs, preferring, rightly or wrongly to rely on the U.N as did many other nations. Surely our presence in Afghanistan should count for something. The Spanish election is just one example of how contentious support for the war on terrorism really is. Hell America itself is severely divided as is Canada. Chretien, a stupid politician, a stupid bureaucrat and a few lefty journalists should not and does not define our relationship. You know this so get over it."
Post#58 (After more flaming and baiting by Laotzu 'What reaction, to the insults from Canadian fools, did you expect?')
"Common sense posting would be nice. Anti-Canadian rants are a dime a dozen."
These are the posts you found "particularly offensive"
"Why don't you consider taking me at my word?"
I do take you at your word and I continue to assert that you are thin-skinned, unable to distinguish between debate and arguement, prone to knee-jerk responses based on your hatred of Canada transferring to anyone Canadian however good spirited, conservative and pro-American they are.
"There are Canadians I see on this site who do what you are saying here."
Canadians such as this?
" You didn't answer the specifics of my question: "Why do you and other Canadians think you have the right to come onto this American site and tell us off?"
As I stated in my previous post, " Why do you suppose that I or any other Canadian here think we have "the right" to come here? My presence here is "a privilege" granted by the owner of this site."
"Saying to me "STFU" is not anywhere near civil. It was particlarly rude."
In the near 2 and 1/2 years that I have been posting here I've lost my cool twice, once on this thread and once here. It takes a bit to get me going.
I find your continual nannyism about the correct behavior for Canadians here 'particularly offensive'. I am a guest of Jim Robinson, the man who gave me a flag that I can fly proudly on my homepage, not of you. If you find a post offensive hit the abuse button and let the mods decide.
"I believe we have every right to bash Canada (or France or Syria or anyone) all we want to"
You may find that is not true. Around a year ago when Canada had just lost warriors in Afghanistan someone posted a particularly disparaging comment about the Canadian Armed Forces. I hit the abuse button and let the mods know how I felt. I left the call in their hands and no matter what their decision I thanked them for letting me get it off my shoulders. The offending post was pulled.
Sunsong, you know that when posters from Canada come here for express purpose of attacking the U.S. I am among the first to let loose on them. But when good, conservative and America friendly posters like albertabound are attacked it is a call to arms as well. I am not proud of being rude to you but rudeness tends to beget rudeness. God bless you and may we meet again on better terms.
I am going to write several posts in response to your latest attack on me. I will address what you have said. There is really nothing new in what I will be saying. My point remains the same – and I really do mean it – it is how I truly feel: I find it offensive when foreigners come onto this American site and tell us off or tell us what to think or what not to think or how to feel or that we shouldn’t feel the way we do. I find it especially offensive to hear from Canadians. If I were a Canadian I would be ashamed to show my face to an American or a Brit or a Pole or an Aussie – because of Canada’s shameful betrayal during the Iraq war. That is how I honestly feel. I don’t know how any Canadian could even come here after the way the country of Canada has treated us. There is nothing you have said in your two posts on this thread that really addresses that.
Here is what I wrote to albertabound. Note that there is no attack in it. I told him my honest opinion. You can be sure that I honestly believe that you and he and any Canadian would truly benefit from reading and listening and really hearing the views of Americans toward your country. You can be sure that I meant everything I said to albertabound. 14 Americans had posted their views prior to my post. Each of them is worth reading, hearing and taking time to understand. They represent the view of many, many Americans. Note that the original article on this thread states that very few Americans think of Canadians as our best friend. We think of Brits as our best friend. You would do well to honestly reflect on why that is the case. You would do well, imo, to read the thoughts of these 14 Americans and really let it what they are saying instead of becoming argumentative and telling them what they should feel and think instead. So here is what I said to albertabound:
”You would do well to read the posts on this thread from Americans. You are not an American, you are a foreigner, and you could really benefit from listening and learning what Americans think of Canada and how we feel about your country.
”It is beyond insulting, imo, for you to continually come onto this American site and tell us what to think and feel. Your silly notion that Canada and America are joined at the hip and that if we don't put up with your insults and betrayals that we are helping terrorism is patantly absurd.
”America is fighting terrorism. Canada is not. You are either with us or against us. You would better serve your country to change your government than to keep coming in here and telling us off. For me, you are just making the case that Canadians are European wannabes and no friend to us.”
There is no attack of albertabound in those paragraphs. I “am” insulted by his continued posts telling us what to think. Believe me I am! And for sure, I do not agree that we “need” Canada at all. If Canada gets Her act together and changes Her immigration policy, truly beefs up Her defenses and joins the war on terror – that will be a wonderful thing. But we don’t “need” Canada. And to present this, imo, silly argument that we need each other is laughable to me. America is fighting terrorism. America will continue to. If Canada join us, that’s great. If Canada doesn’t – America will still prevail.
Here are the posts from the 14 Americans on this thread. My view is that it would have been better for albertabound to really “get” what they are saying than to confront people and tell them that they are wrong to feel and think the way that they do:
"The American public has accepted that, post-Sept. 11, allies have to be looked at by what they do, not what they say."
"thanks Tony Blair.”
2 posted on 03/15/2004 8:08:00 AM PST by No Blue States
”we heard many things about Canada after Bush started moving toward Afghanistan. Terms like "imbicile", "stupid", "goon" etc to describe President Bush. Curses about an American bomber who dropped weapons on some Canadian Soldiers in an honest error. Apologies were sent, and spat upon.
”Then there were the kids from an American school who went to play hockey, and they were loudly booed and heckled and spat upon.
”And when we visit Canada now we're treated like the plague.
”No wonder we're liking the Brits more and more.”
6 posted on 03/15/2004 8:20:13 AM PST by theDentist
”When it becomes common knowledge that a Canadian MP stated that Americans were bastards and she hated them, and that the remark met with no rebuke from the PM, and she later on TV stood by her remark, then what would you expect the attitude of Americans to be?”
7 posted on 03/15/2004 8:21:01 AM PST by quidnunc
To: albertabound
”Other than send some troops to Afghanistan (for which we thank Canada and mourn your losses, especially in the friendly fire mix-up incident), all Canada has done is support the French and oppose the US. And your border security is a very bad joke. Sorry, but much of Canada is not America's friend. Much of western Canada is, but your government and Quebec are no more our friends than ChIraq and the French.”
8 posted on 03/15/2004 8:21:10 AM PST by CatoRenasci
”Dear Cannuck-
”We are former friends.
9 posted on 03/15/2004 8:22:42 AM PST by Lexington Green
”Best pal my ass! They wouldn't lift a finger to help us as recent history more than proves.”
10 posted on 03/15/2004 8:23:28 AM PST by conservativecorner
”Well, don't you just have all the answers. As long as the question is, "How stupid are Americans?" Putz.”
12 posted on 03/15/2004 8:23:58 AM PST by big gray tabby
To: albertabound
”We're suggesting that Chretien has been a disaster for US/Canadian relations.
”We always counted on you guys. Post Chretien, we see Canada with new eyes. Part of the problem is that, due to the magic of cable, we get Canadian news now, and see what Canada says about us behind our backs. So the problem isn't a lack of exposure to Canada as the article implies, it is an increase of exposure to Canada that has caused us to doubt her friendship.
”Although, in fairness, Canada is what the US would be if the Democrats got complete control of all branches of government, and could use them to lock out the opposition.”
13 posted on 03/15/2004 8:24:28 AM PST by marron
To: albertabound
”TheDentist in post 6 pretty much summed up how I feel also.
”But I appreciate what help yall do give, even if it seems half hearted to me. No offense to you, You very well might support the WOT more fully.”
14 posted on 03/15/2004 8:24:46 AM PST by No Blue States
”Very true.
”Canadians seem to enjoy believing that Americans are just too stupid to realize Canada exists. That's why we "forgot" to name them our closest friend.
”In fact, Canada has made the news in the U. S. with regularity since 9/11, building toward the following impression: In matters of international importance, Canada prefers to side with France over the U. S. and Britain. The refusal of Canada to participate in Iraq left a greater impression than Canadians seem to realize. Especially considering the heated anti-U. S. rhetoric the Chretien government tossed in for good measure.
”Canada would no doubt prefer that Americans remained ignorant about her. Because, in the past couple of years, the more we learn, the less we like”
18 posted on 03/15/2004 8:42:04 AM PST by Snuffington
”It's not that we don't we don't know about Canada... we just don't like what we see and read. The fishing is great though.”
22 posted on 03/15/2004 8:50:55 AM PST by johnny7
”What's to know?
”Despite not fighting for their freedom, the Canadians were granted it by a benevolent Great Britain apx. 60 years ago.
”Canada has spent virtually every day of that freedom rejecting everything related to a democracy, or to capitalism, and embraced everything socialist & evil.
”This is, in it's entirety, the history of Canada.
”What's to know? What's to respect? Nothing.”
23 posted on 03/15/2004 8:52:29 AM PST by laotzu
To: albertabound
”Your government has done everything in their power to nullify the positive works of your military. You might want to fix that.”
28 posted on 03/15/2004 9:01:24 AM PST by Dead Dog
”I hope Conservatives like you vote the other side out of office so that we can mend past damages. The last thing we need is an enemy on our Northern border.”
38 posted on 03/15/2004 9:08:40 AM PST by No Blue States
To: albertabound; headsonpikes; NorthOf45
”Here's the deal, when the chips were down for us Canada turned her back on us.
”I'm not talking about military help, I'm talking about your government withholding moral and diplomatic support in the UN.
”I'm talking about the polls that showed the Canadian's to be luke-warm at best to the US and the war on terror.
”I'm talking about the sniping and outright insults from your government and media.
”In short, Canada by her words and deeds has shown herself to be a fiar-weather friend, and that just isn't good enough anymore.
”As Victor Davis Hanson writed on his blog today:
What do these two diverse developments have in common? Inasmuch as the Spanish, like the Greeks, do not want any visible relationship with the Americans lest it bring them to the attention of terrorists, and inasmuch as neither country seems to wish the Americans off their shores or to leave an American-led NATO alliance in their hours of crises, we can only conclude that Americans are good for only one thing: providing unquestioned military support and assistance to those who otherwise wish nothing to do with them.
”He's writing about Spain and Greece, but if one substitutes "commerce and trade" for "unquestioned military support and assistance" then one summarizes Canada's attitude very succinctly.”
39 posted on 03/15/2004 9:10:39 AM PST by quidnunc
”Sorry, I do not feel that we are friends, or connected, or anything. Though I do not have much contact with the average Canadian Joe, the remarks coming from your elected officials is enough for me to shun Canada and not care what you guys think about us. I see that you live under the umbrella of our protection and yet spit upon us whenever you please. It's a free world - for the most part - and you have every right to do so - rights that are provided by our military not yours. As once stated in a movie - I rather you just say thank you and be on your way!”
44 posted on 03/15/2004 9:22:40 AM PST by 7thson
”Indeed. Bump! Canada is no friend of America. Close the border now and secure the land corridor to Alaska. And close the St. Lawrence seaway to them as well.
45 posted on 03/15/2004 9:26:44 AM PST by CatoRenasci
To: albertabound
”Canada continues to insult me, and my country.
”That it angers me would be mysterious to any without a spine. Spare me your show of indignation.
”What reaction, to the insults from you fools, did you expect?
55 posted on 03/15/2004 9:41:27 AM PST by laotzu
[ Canadians call U.S. best pal ]
”What do they want ?....
”Canada is like France.. "They are there whenever THEY need US"… “
59 posted on 03/15/2004 9:49:42 AM PST by hosepipe
“The best way Canadians can show us that they really do not support the party of "Damn Americans I hate those bastards" and "Bush is a moron" is very simple - destroy the Liberal crooks at the ballot box and vote for the Conservatives. “It's a realistic possibility, we'll see if it happens.”
109 posted on 03/15/2004 1:31:42 PM PST by SB00
I have asked you this question several times but you have not answered it. Why do you chose to argue with these opinions? Why do you chose to tell these people not to feel the way that they do – not to think the way that they do? And why do you chose to come onto an American site to do it? As I said to you, and you totally ignored – I would never go onto a Canadian site and act like that.
”Post #1 The article
The article suggests that Americans choose Brits as their best friend. To me, Brits are family. Canada is our neighbor. But Canada is Not our friend. Friends don’t stab you in the back in your time of need.
”Post#3 "Are you suggesting Canada has done nothing?"
To me that post by albertabound was confrontational. “No Blue States” had made the point that the Brits stood by us and Canada did not. What was the point of arguing that?
”Post #25 "Canadian Conservatives are well aware of the damage Chretien and his liberal stooges have caused and we are working hard to oust them and then will try to rebuild the fences. Many small western Canadian businesses are seeing their American marketplace dry up in the wake of this debacle.
"I am pleased that the poll shows the majority of Canadians look favorably on our friendship and that is a big positive. The truth of the matter is that other than Quebec ( which as little in common with the rest of Canada, let alone America)Canadians and Americans are very much alike. Chretien's Anti-American sentiment was a concession to quell Quebec separatiste's. This in turn was a betrayal and tainted the attitude of America toward all Canadians. A sad but I believe repairable situation. We are joined at the hip and further deterioration only serves the terrorists." “
As I said in my post to albertabound – I find the argument that America and Canada are “joined at the hip and further deterioration only serves the terrorists” to be patently absurd. Further, it feels like an attempt to manipulate – which is offensive.
”Post #36 (In response to Laotzu comment (insult)"What's to know? What's to respect? Nothing.")
"I guess you fall into that category that prefers to know nothing about it's northern neighbour. Perhaps we could dig up the bodies of the thousands of Canadians that died fighting for freedom in two world wars,Korea, with U.S forces in Viet Nam, Bosnia and Afghanistan and ask them why they contributed nothing to democracy."
I find the statement, “I guess you fall into that category that prefers to know nothing about it’s northern neighbor” offensive. Are you suggesting that albertabound is controlled by Laotzu and has no responsibility for what he chooses to say?
”Post #48 (in response to Laotzu's "Don't guess; read. Or, get someone that can read to do it for you, Eh!!……
I have provided the entire national history of Canada on this very thread.")
"Insult, the last resort of a fool."
I find the statement by albertabound, “Insult, the last resort of a fool” – particularly insulting. And I find it insulting toward Laotzu, which is ironic in that by albertabound’s own logic – he is calling himself a fool by being so insulting :-)
”Post#56 "Quid, this post does not support your theory. We did not turn our backs, preferring, rightly or wrongly to rely on the U.N as did many other nations. Surely our presence in Afghanistan should count for something. The Spanish election is just one example of how contentious support for the war on terrorism really is. Hell America itself is severely divided as is Canada. Chretien, a stupid politician, a stupid bureaucrat and a few lefty journalists should not and does not define our relationship. You know this so get over it."
I find the statement by albertabound, “You know this so get over it” to be particularly offensive and inflamatory.
”Post#58 (After more flaming and baiting by Laotzu 'What reaction, to the insults from Canadian fools, did you expect?')”
"Common sense posting would be nice. Anti-Canadian rants are a dime a dozen."
I would have liked to hear an answer to Laotzu’s point. What reaction did you expect from Americans when we have been so unfairly attacked by Canadian officials and betrayed by Canada over the Iraq war? Instead albertabound chose to attack and insult. Again, are you saying that Laotzu somehow controls albertabound? Who chooses what albertabound types?
” These are the posts you found "particularly offensive"”
Yes. Very much so. I realize that I am just repeating myself, but on the chance that on one reading or another you will understand where I am coming from I will say it again. Yes, I found albertabounds posts to be “particularly offensive” – that’s why I said so. What is the point of coming onto an American site and telling us off? Do you honestly think that it will improve relations? Isn’t it more likely that it will insult us and further inflame the hostilities between us? Do you have any idea of how it might come across to an American like myself who is totally sick and outraged at what I hear and see coming from Canada to come onto Free Republic – an American site – and be told off by a Canadian who doesn’t even seem to “get it” enough to leave us alone after what Canada has done? Do you have any idea of how much better it would be to let us express our outrage and our anger than to try and tell us not to feel it? I mean, honestly, do you have any idea how offensive it is to even hear from Canadians right now? It seems to me like some of you have the awareness and sensitivity of a piece of granite.
You said to me that you didn’t know “why” I take the position that I do. And I responded by asking you, “why don’t you consider taking me at my word?”. To which you said:
”I do take you at your word and I continue to assert that you are thin-skinned, unable to distinguish between debate and arguement, prone to knee-jerk responses based on your hatred of Canada transferring to anyone Canadian however good spirited, conservative and pro-American they are.
I don’t think you are taking me at my word at all. I think you are telling me who I am. And I think that you are putting me down, being rude and offensive. You chose to ignore my point of how funny it seems to me for you to call me “thin-skinned” when it sure appears that it is you Canadians who are thin-skinned. Do you understand what I am saying? Isn’t it the case that it is you Canadians who are so “upset” at being criticized that you choose to attack Americans on an American site? I would never go onto a Canadian site and attack Canadians. And believe me I have read some horribly ugly anti-American statements by Canadians on Canadian sites. Who is really thin-skinned here? I have explained why I find albertabound’s posts to be offensive. Is there anything about my explanations that you do not understand?
I said that there are Canadians on this site who I appreciate and you linked to a previous thread in which I told you that I had no argument with you on that thread. Why did you make that link? I find your posts to me on this thread to be very offensive, as I have said. The way you are treating me now is the way that I think of you now.
”In the near 2 and 1/2 years that I have been posting here I've lost my cool twice, once on this thread and once here. It takes a bit to get me going. “
Are you saying here that you are not responsible for your own conduct? Are you trying to say that I “caused” you to become so rude and ugly?
”I find your continual nannyism about the correct behavior for Canadians here 'particularly offensive'.”
That’s an interesting choice of words – nannyism. As long as I perceive Canadians to be coming onto this American site “nannying” us Americans – telling us what we should think or not think, how we should feel or not feel etc – I will continue to confront it and express my opinion about how I feel foreigners should behave on this site.
I said, "I believe we have every right to bash Canada (or France or Syria or anyone) all we want to" . And you said I might find that it is not true. It is what I believe. That’s why I said it. I believe that Free Republic is the perfect place for Americans to express themselves and to rant about subjects that are on their mind. You seem to be quite interested in what the admin moderator will or won’t do about posts in this area. Perhaps we will find out soon enough…
”Sunsong, you know that when posters from Canada come here for express purpose of attacking the U.S. I am among the first to let loose on them.”
No I don’t. I don’t know you or have any reason to trust you. I know that you have attacked me personally on this thread. That’s what sticks in my mind right now about you.
”But when good, conservative and America friendly posters like albertabound are attacked it is a call to arms as well. I am not proud of being rude to you but rudeness tends to beget rudeness. God bless you and may we meet again on better terms.”
We disagree. I am offended by albertabound’s continual posts telling us Americans what to think and feel. I find his style to be abrasive and often rude. I think it would be so much wiser for Canadians to simply change their government than to continually come onto this American site and tell us not to think and feel the way that we do. Canada has treated us badly. Where, other than here, do you think we should express how we feel about that?