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To: ThinkPlease
"If we did that for every science course, kids would learn nothing. What makes biology different?"

Oh, please, that's not even slightly true. What, are people arguing that the laws of thermodynamics are inconsistent? Are they arguing that there's no such thing as gravity? Are people having trouble with Einstein's theories? Oh, actually, yes, when I was a kid, Hawking was just starting to become big, and our teacher DID teach us about what was still some rather controversial points being made by Hawking that differed from Einsten...

Get my point?

What makes evolutionary theory different is that it's still basically conjecture. When I was a kid, I was taught as -fact- that Neanderthal was a direct ancestor of humans - and now we know that ain't true. We -still- haven't found the missing link. There's still a -tremendous- number of unanswered questions. What bothers me is that when I was taught it, I was -never- made aware by my teachers that there were still unanswered questions. The entire thing was taught as fact. And as it has even been admitted on this thread, it's -not- fact.

The vast bulk of other sciences -are- fact, and it's just plain silly to pretend otherwise. And before you come back with "Well, what about the Flat Earth Society?", I hate to tell you this, but people who consider ID to be a possibility aside from the religious aspect are not nearly so fringe, and it's really disrespectful, arrogant and rude to act as if they're simply insane.

Qwinn
52 posted on 03/09/2004 7:06:51 PM PST by Qwinn
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To: Qwinn
What makes evolutionary theory different is that it's still basically conjecture.

You need to educate yourself on the subject. If it were just conjecture, then it wouldn't have the status of theory.
53 posted on 03/09/2004 7:19:57 PM PST by Dimensio (I gave you LIFE! I -- AAAAAAAAH!)
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To: Qwinn
What makes evolutionary theory different is that it's still basically conjecture. When I was a kid, I was taught as -fact- that Neanderthal was a direct ancestor of humans - and now we know that ain't true. We -still- haven't found the missing link. There's still a -tremendous- number of unanswered questions. What bothers me is that when I was taught it, I was -never- made aware by my teachers that there were still unanswered questions. The entire thing was taught as fact. And as it has even been admitted on this thread, it's -not- fact.

My point is that science is not dogmatic, unlike what other people would have you think. Repeat after me: There Is No Such Thing As A Scientific Fact. 100 years ago, people would say that the Laws of Thermodynamics are immutable, but now, it appears that that is not the case at low temperatures and at small distances. Rules are being broken all over the place that were thought to be "Scientific Fact" a century ago, but don't actually apply at very high and very low energies.

Listen, most of the things that get brought up by Wells in his book that got added to the Ohio lesson plan is a complete crock. Did you know that 3 people with any sort of scientific credentials were a part of the process, and 2 of those were card carrying members of the Discovery Institude...and that nearly all of the development of the plan itself was done under wraps and not a public process until very recently, when it was too late to change it? Yeah, Ohio got hoodwinked big time.

95% of the "evolutionary questions" comes from Wells' Icons of Evolution, which is an ID screed. It tries to raise questions that researchers in modern day biological researchers have left behind 40 years ago or more. It's so bush league that it's no wonder that the Discovery Institute is resorting to stacking the deck to get their way/ If ID is so scientific, where's the theory? What's the predictive power of ID? If it's so compellingly better that evolution, how come there are no big ID research groups forming to develop large scale projects examining it?

Because there's no science behind ID. The reason evolution gets taught in school is because its the best theory out there. It's the reason you learned about Einstein in the 1970's, because it was the most compelling scientific theory of the time. Every theory (even the ones you consider "fact") has problems somewhere, it's just a question of what you want to present in class to get the most important concepts across to them. In high school, the flaws in any theory are never the most important concepts, not in the freighterload of material that has to be covered in such a short period of time.

The vast bulk of other sciences -are- fact, and it's just plain silly to pretend otherwise. And before you come back with "Well, what about the Flat Earth Society?", I hate to tell you this, but people who consider ID to be a possibility aside from the religious aspect are not nearly so fringe, and it's really disrespectful, arrogant and rude to act as if they're simply insane.

The vast bulk of other sciences are NOT fact, and I think it's fair to ask the question that I asked earlier? After all, we talk about the composition of other planets as if they were fact. Why don't we sit down and tell the kiddies the arguments of why Europa has liquid oceans or not? Or where the Sodium Atmosphere of the moon comes from? Or any other of a number of Facts That Aren't Evolution? What do you think?

55 posted on 03/09/2004 7:36:03 PM PST by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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