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To: Sabertooth
As in your earlier post, it appears that you grasp part of the truth, but lose your grip on its totality.

Israel invaded the lower strip of Lebanon in self defense to put an end to the terrorist attacks that were being launched from there.

The Israeli invasion of south Lebanon began as an effort to root out PLO elements who were indeed attacking Israel. Some suggest that the campaign was a pretext for long-term occupation-- but I'm not arguing that. And initially, the Shiites, some Sunni, Armenians, and the different Arab Christian groups supported the invasion. (can you imagine that-- those crazed murderous Arabs suppporting Israel?) THE PROBLEM WAS THAT ONCE ISRAEL WAS IN-- THEY DECIDED TO STAY. The Shiites of Southern Lebanon effectively said to the Israelis: It is good that you have come. The PLO is making trouble in the land. But be sure to leave.

Of course, the Israelis being who they are stayed and ultimately transformed apolitical, quiescent Lebanese Shias into Hizbollah, and bulllied the Maronites and other Christians to the point where fighting Israel became a unifying national struggle. That's why even Arab Christians in Lebanon along with their Muslim counterparts hate Israel. Emile Lahoud (Christian President of Lebanon) said: "The Israelis are our enemies". So, why should it surprise anyone that Arab Christians hate Israel.

And once again: Israel does not occupy "palestine," the Hashemites do.

That's just too rich. Even the Israelis don't use that line anymore.

You must know that the Christians are being driven out of Lebanon by the Lebanese and Syrian Muslims.

Yes, that's why they accepted a Christian as head of state in Lebanon. Sarcasm aside, both Christian and Muslim migration away from Lebanon has declined as stability has returned. The business climate is getting better and the fact is-- Lebanon's one of the most beautiful places in the world. Lots of Christian Arab/ Lebanese Armenian Americans are going back to set up shop now that there's hope. Now that the Israelis are out.

The UN didn't. Learn your history. The League of Nations did I think you're forgetting that the League of Nations ceased to exist before Israeli independence. Besides, neither the League, nor Lord Balfour, or the UN had any right to partition land or property that rightfully belonged to someone else.

proto-Israel was willing to trade 78% of the Transjordan for peace. Yes, a truly generous people that they were prepared to give back part of stolen property.

You sorta glossed over the Jews and Christians who were killed or converted at swordpoint when the Musliims conquered the Levant. As I understand it, the Christians who died in the Muslim conquest of the Levant were almost all soldiers. If they killed civillians or Jews-- then the Muslims who did it are burning in hell(soon to be joined by Bin Laden). But by and large Muslims of that era were civilized relative to their contemporaries, and did not subscribe to the mindless hate that now permeates too much of the Islamic world.

There were no such things as "palestinians" 100 years ago, let alone 1000. That's semantics. Call them the Arabs of Palestine if you prefer. By the way, Jesus was a "Palestinian Jew" according to the Romans.

I'd burn those olive groves too, if "palestinians" were shooting at me and other settlers from their confines. Land is sacred. Trespass on another man's land and of course he's going to shoot you. Justifiably so. Problem with the Palestinians is that the stupid bastards shoot innocents.

The Promised Land was given to the Jews forever. Now we're getting somewhere... This seems to be the center of gravity for your support for Israel, regardless of anything they do. Since this is an article of Faith for you, I'm not going to belabor the point much. My view is that God at one time chose the Jews. After the Jews broke the covenant, God sent Jesus to reform the Jews and they rejected him except for the Jews who accepted him as the Messiah (Christians).

All this being said, I don't begrudge the Jews their homeland. I do hope that someone of obviously deep faith as you would ultimately recognize injustice no matter how cleverly it's cloaked. But I'm curious, in the view of your particular faith (I assume you're an evangelical Protestant), what happens to the Jews after their return to the Holy Land? Is it true that most of them die in an apocalyptic war and the rest convert to Christianity? Will the Jews that die without knowing Christ be condemned to hell even as they fulfill God's word?

That's the aspect of your otherwise rich and beautiful faith that troubles me. I guess it troubles even many Jewish people who otherwise celebrate the unswerving support of Christians like you.

You see, to me God is just,compassionate, and merciful. How could a just God send one who believes in Him and does good in this world-- to hell?

1,178 posted on 03/07/2004 12:19:22 AM PST by Hamza01
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To: Hamza01
These posts between you and Sabertooth are very enlightening, well written and interesting.

Right now I'm reading The Life of Jesus Christ, by Giuseppe Ricciotti. The book was written following WW I, and is actually a historical account, as much as a chronicling of that period can rightfully be called one, of the period in which Jesus was born and lived.

So far, it's proving to be an incredible piece of scholarship, and while there really is no mention of Palestinians, per se, the term Palestine is used profusely throughout the text with an actual map titled 'Palestine At The Time Of Christ'.

Quoting directly from the book text, following are how the borders of the map of that time are laid out:

"Palestine is flanked by natural borders, the Mediterranean on the west and the Syrio-Arabian desert on the east. On the north and south her natural boundaries are not so well defined, although in the north a clear enough division is marked by the Lebanon mountain range. This descends parallel to the Mediteranean and is bordered on the interior by the Anti-Lebanon range, from which Mount Hermon rises like a vanguard. The pass between Hermon and Lebanon may be considered the nothrern boundary of Palestine. The southern boundary is represented in general by Idumaea and the desert regions which extend directly below Beersheba and the Dead Sea. These are the two boundaries, northern and southern, frequently referred to in the Old Testament phrase, "from Dan to Beersheba," to denote that part of Palestine inhabited by the Hebrews."

The original book was written in Italian by Mr. Ricciotti, Professor at the University of Rome and published in 1941. Translation was produced by Alba I. Zizzamia of Trinity College, Ocotber 1946.

1,189 posted on 03/07/2004 7:46:48 AM PST by AlbionGirl ("Ha cambiato occhi per la coda.")
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