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NASA rover photographs Mars moon crossing the sun (Deimos)
Sac Bee ^ | 3/4/04 | AP - Pasadena

Posted on 03/04/2004 7:20:36 PM PST by NormsRevenge

Edited on 04/12/2004 6:06:53 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - The NASA rover Opportunity turned a camera skyward to photograph Mars' moon Deimos eclipsing the sun and also carried out the most complex movements yet of its robotic arm to record microscopic images of a rock, Jet Propulsion Laboratory said Thursday.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crossingthesun; deimos; lastchance; mars; marsmoon; marsrover; meridianiplanum; nasa; opportunity; panoramic; photographs
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To: NormsRevenge
I hope Arthur C. Clarke is watching this. Although not exactly the same thing, his Transit of Earth described the exact same feeling of wonderment that I'm feeling right now.
21 posted on 03/05/2004 8:23:40 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: Terpfen
A thought; 200 separate motions for 128 pictures? Why the heck can't these people just buy a digicam off the shelf at a Best Buy somewhere, wire it to write to a hard drive instead of a memory card, set it so that it can take pictures with an electric command instead of having to hit the shutter, and then mail it to Mars?

Keep in mind that everything that goes into space has to be rad-hardened, ruggedized, vacuum baked, and undergo a series of vibration and shock tests before launch. You'd hate to launch an off-the-shelf part only to discover that it outgasses something nasty in vacuum that ruins the electronics. Or, you'd hate for the camera to break in two during the 9Gs of launch or the sudden impact on Mars. Also, you'd hate to lose your electronics because they took too many cosmic rays during flight. Finally, you have to consider power. These instruments are running on watts of power. Not hundreds of watts, not tens of watts, but watts.

If you could get away with buying off-the-shelf stuff, I'd be first in line. Heck, we do it when we *can* get away with it. However, nothing off-the-shelf is going to be space rated.

Besides, do we really want a repeat of Beagle 2?

22 posted on 03/05/2004 8:25:12 PM PST by MikeD (Don't go there, Diane...)
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To: Phil V.
Thanks for the ping.

A happy member of the MARS ping list, happy to know there's some place in the universe not infested with democRATs,

I remain,
23 posted on 03/05/2004 8:40:36 PM PST by FreeTheHostages
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To: Phil V.
Thanks for the ping!
24 posted on 03/05/2004 8:52:29 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Phil V.; NormsRevenge
Thank you!
25 posted on 03/05/2004 9:03:53 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: ElkGroveDan
Yo, Dan . . . uh . . . yer getting ahead of me in glyphing . . . I can't let that happen. Here's a glyph of a segment of "last chance" (I think). Notice how a fracture in the rock has partially "grown" back together . . . further evidence of repeated wet periods . . .

26 posted on 03/05/2004 9:12:49 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: FreeTheHostages
A happy member of the MARS ping list . . .

Just a friendly reminder that your monthly dues are soon due. In your case I'll give you the prefered rate of only 12 Mars Bars. (no installments allowed)

27 posted on 03/05/2004 9:17:12 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Did you ever get you set of red & blues?
28 posted on 03/05/2004 9:18:20 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: MikeD
"Besides, do we really want a repeat of Beagle 2?"

I see your point. However, I still think that writing up a contract for Nikon or Fiji would be a great idea.
29 posted on 03/05/2004 9:21:45 PM PST by Terpfen (Re-elect Bush; kill terrorists now, fix Medicare later.)
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To: Phil V.
I hadn't asked for any , if I know what you are talking about.
30 posted on 03/05/2004 9:48:31 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: ElkGroveDan
See this:

Volcanic Rock in Mars' Gusev Crater Hints at Past Water

31 posted on 03/05/2004 9:52:14 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
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To: Terpfen; All
I still think that writing up a contract for Nikon or Fiji would be a great idea.

It wouldn't be the first time. Nikon's website has lots of historical info on the custom F and F2 bodies they built for NASA. In fact, for years they sold the "Apollo" and "Titan" versions -- ruggedized commercial products, with titanium covers, based on the NASA models.

As far as concerns about outgassing and such, I'd think that would be more of an issue with film cameras, what with the emulsion being gelatine -- a biological material, notable for sensitivity to everything from temperature, humidity (and/or lack thereof), static electricity, and of course, radiation. Yet, for decades, they've used film cameras in space, on the Moon, in orbit (some satellites would drop a cannister with exposed filmf or an airplane to pickup), and it performed well.

The first "traditional" camera in space was a somewhat modified Minolta rangefinder model that John Glenn took with him. The modifications were basically things like big knobs that could be operated via the clumsy space suit gloves. The camera itself (transport, lens, shutter) was pretty much stock. (And ISTR the very first one being a stock Minolta, personally owned, but that may be my memory playing tricks on me.)

As for vibration and shock, an all-electronic camera would inherently be more robust than a film camera. And, most components can be potted, making them incredibly rugged. The optics, being small (smaller than those used on a 35mm or 120 camera) would have less mass and therefore be less susceptible to shock and impact damage (a feather can take a 10G impact better than a brick).

Finally, pretty much all concerns apart from impact (itself addressed above) can be solved by placing the camera in a rugged, hermetically-sealed "can" until landing and deployment. The rigors of space won't have any effect on it in such an environment -- and, it's an extremely low-tech, inexpensive solution.

IMO the only reason they haven't put a decent color camera onboard is that the pocket-protector crew persuaded the beancounter contingent that it was best to do it their way. The best of both worlds -- an arcane, convoluted, "see, we did it my way and it did work, kinda" process for delivering color photos, and a "save eleven cents out of an $850 million budget" level of "savings".

We've gone from the seat-of-their-pants "the best stuff" generation to the can't-get-a-date "revenge of the nerds" generation at NASA.

Yeah, they got their revenge. Junkyard Wars in Space.

end_grousing:initiate_coffepot_sequence

G'mornin', all.

32 posted on 03/06/2004 6:38:56 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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PS:

Here a relevant Nikon history link:

http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/society/rhnc/rhnc12ti-e.htm

33 posted on 03/06/2004 6:40:56 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe
(And ISTR the very first one being a stock Minolta, personally owned, but that may be my memory playing tricks on me.)

I guess my brain is still functional. :)

Excerpted from " HUMAN SPACE FLIGHT: A RECORD OF ACHIEVEMENT, 1961-1998", by the NASA History Division:

Glenn was the first American to see a sunrise and sunset from space, and was the first photographer in orbit, having taken along a 35­millimeter Minolta purchased from a Cocoa Beach, Florida drugstore.

Here's some more info on the actual camera he used, excerpted from Minolta Hi-Matic Range Finder Cameras - 1962-1978:

Hi-Matic - 1962

Introduced in 1962, the Minolta Hi-Matic was a full sized 35mm camera with a coupled range finder for its 45 mm f2.8 lens. It was also available with a 45mm f2.0 lens. Reasonably successful, it was also sold under the name Ansco Autoset. 

It provided full automatic exposure by means of a selenium cell meter and a needle capture exposure system. In automatic mode the camera sets both shutter speed and aperture by a needle capture mechanism that locks the meter needle of the selenium light meter. The meter requires no battery. Apertures may also be set manually against a fixed shutter speed of 1/60 th of a second. The camera must be cocked before changing modes.

The body is chrome with a gray imitation leather covering and a black plastic focusing ring. It has a front mounted shutter release with an auxiliary threaded socket on the top plate for accepting a cable release. The PC flash contact is on the lower front of the body. The self timer is on the lens barrel.

The Hi-Matic has a special place in history. John Glen carried a modified version of the Minolta Hi-Matic with him aboard his Mercury Capsule when he made the first manned orbit of the earth by an American in 1962.

The modifications involved a handle and enlarged wind lever and trigger shutter controls. The camera was operated inverted using an auxiliary, folding viewfinder mounded on the bottom of the camera.

The camera is still on exhibit at the United States National Air and Space Museum of the Smithsonian Institute in Washington, D.C.

 

And finally, from Bob Monaghan's fantastic resource, NASA Space Shuttle Photography -- an excellent collected knowledge base of space photography information.

34 posted on 03/06/2004 7:09:57 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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Just a footnote, to add that the point of that content above on the uber-modest Minolta consumer camera being used successfully in space, is that the rigors of space are not automatically guaranteed to destroy anything but the most ultra-robust handmade half-million dollar cameras. And even a cheap digicam is inherently much more rugged than that fairly delicate Minolta Autoset (speaking as someone who spent many years hunched over the bench as a camera repairman).
35 posted on 03/06/2004 7:16:11 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: ElkGroveDan
More of a transit than eclipse. Get you reservations in for June 8, 2004!
36 posted on 03/06/2004 7:27:21 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Uday and Qusay are ead-day)
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I cannot resist! :)

Here's one last post on this topic. This is a better picture of the actual camera, as modified by Red Williams, from the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum:


"Ansco Autoset 35mm camera used by John Glenn on Friendship 7, the first U.S. manned orbital mission. Glenn used standard and ultraviolet-sensitive film in the camera which had been modified for left-handed operation.
NASA Photograph"

Here's a description from NASA:

Even the weight of a small camera mattered. Known for his camera expertise, Williams was asked to modify further the off-the-shelf Ansco Autoset camera Glenn would carry into orbit. He removed any parts unnecessary to its basic function, such as decorative leather or metal and replaced the larger hand-pistol grip with a smaller one.

He did indulge in one luxury, adding a larger viewfinder taken off a Polaroid camera so Glenn would have a better view.

(Lots more info on the other camera modifications he did for NASA at that link above.)

37 posted on 03/06/2004 7:28:08 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe
I vaguely recall from my photo period that a Hasselblad was lost on a Gemini EVA mission. I wonder if it's stll zooming around?
38 posted on 03/06/2004 7:30:34 AM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: Calvin Locke
They left several beautiful very-customized Hassies, with bulk 70mm backs, on the moon.

Criminal!

39 posted on 03/06/2004 7:34:16 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe
As far as concerns about outgassing and such, I'd think that would be more of an issue with film cameras

It depends on the instruments that are being flown. UV cameras are extremely sensitive to outgassing & contamination and have to be kept under constant GN2 purge and/or vacuum to stay clean. That was one of the concerns with the recent Rosetta launch -- all of those instruments had to be kept clean an extra year. Outgassing may not be a concern for that camera, but it may affect other nearby instruments or power supplies.

For that matter, we had a sounding rocket in April fail because of outgassing in the wiring. The outgassing created a partial pressure in our electronics section, and Paschen's curve bit us in the rear end & shorted our HV power supplies.

The first "traditional" camera in space was a somewhat modified Minolta rangefinder model that John Glenn took with him. The modifications were basically things like big knobs that could be operated via the clumsy space suit gloves. The camera itself (transport, lens, shutter) was pretty much stock. (And ISTR the very first one being a stock Minolta, personally owned, but that may be my memory playing tricks on me.)

True, but that was in the pressurized capsule. The same camera may have failed in vacuum/under radiation/whatever. I don't know off the top of my head.

Don't get me wrong -- I'd love to use as many off-the-shelf products as possible. My group does that as much as possible. However, in a lot of cases, the money you spend in environmental testing to qualify some off-the-shelf part for space is going to be more than just building something yourself.

40 posted on 03/06/2004 8:30:47 AM PST by MikeD (Don't go there, Diane...)
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