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To: Burkeman1
You seem fixated on the Emporers and their truly decadent lifestyles. We know about these rather torrid stories of total depravity because that is what survives and what most people were writing about. They were not writing about the regualr Pedestrian citizen in the street. But we do have every day records which paint a far more conservative picture of the average Roman Citizens life. Mr. Average Roman citizen was not having orgies with boys- far from it. He most likely wasn't even aware (much less cared) what the emperor did. There was no CNN and no printing press even.

IMHO, I think you miss the bigger point. In a controlling society like Roman society was - a police state, albeit "fun" police state (bread and circuses?) - it didn't matter what the views of the "common man" were. Those who were in control were hedons - lovers of themselves and pleasures - this lead by and large to the decline of the Empire as a whole.

75 posted on 03/01/2004 4:52:03 AM PST by realpatriot71 ("But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise . . ." (I Cor. 1:27))
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To: realpatriot71
In a controlling society like Roman society was - a police state, albeit "fun" police state (bread and circuses?) - it didn't matter what the views of the "common man" were.

Rome was not really a "police state." Certainly, it wasn't a representative democracy. However, the government did not really intrude into the daily lives of citizens to a great degree, probably less than in America today. Furthermore, the views of the common man were important to the authorities, especally in Rome itself, where fear of the Mob tempered the decisions of the Emperor himself.

Those who were in control were hedons - lovers of themselves and pleasures - this lead by and large to the decline of the Empire as a whole.

Again, this view of the ruling classes in Rome is based on the decadent excess of a very few. Scandalous behavior by a few at the top of a society is not an accurate gauge of the morals of a society. If you only judged the morality of American society by looking at rich NY socialites, corrupt DC politicians and libertine Hollywood celebrities, you'd conclude that America was rapidly sliding into moral collapse, too.

And, if anything, the two main causes of Roman decline were Christianity and lead pipes.

80 posted on 03/01/2004 5:52:24 AM PST by Modernman ("The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must." - Thucydides)
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