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To: blam; Just mythoughts
"This to me seems to give evidence that Noah's flood was not the entire earth, rather the known earth to the people where Noah was."

That's my opinion and, probably the Black Sea flood in 5600BC.

I'm still trying to make up my mind on that issue. On the one hand, I can see that it would be easier to reconcile the present archaeological data with Scripture if the Flood is interpreted as local. On the other hand, Scripture describes the Flood as covering the highest mountains and wiping out all land life, which sounds like the Flood was coincident with the extent of human population at that time (or at least had repercussions that affected all human-occupied areas); and archaeological knowledge is in a constant state of flux, as I know, blam, you are well aware :) So I'm still trying to make up my mind on how to best reconcile the Scriptural and archaeological data on that one. Another hypothesis I've been toying with is that the Flood was global but earlier, at the end of the Ice Age, so that such phenomena as the draining of Lake Agassiz, the extinction of megafauna, and the end of Paleolithic culture might be related to the Flood; and conceivably the Black Sea may have gone through some changes at the same time Lake Agassiz did, prior to the 5600 BC changes mentioned above. Blam, I'd be interested to hear any thoughts you have on that idea or this subject in general.

19 posted on 02/29/2004 12:45:06 PM PST by Fedora
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To: Fedora; blam
I'm looking up some stuff on the topic of my last post now; here's something with some interesting discussion:

“Noah's Flood” and the Late Quaternary Geological and Archaeological History of the Black Sea and Adjacent Basins

One of the papers proposes something which sounds along the lines I was suggesting:

---

A comparative analysis of the Late Glacial history of the inner basins of Eurasia enables us to suggest an alternative to the Early Holocene Flood that Ryan et al. (1997) thought could be the basis for the legend of Noah’s Flood. At the Late Glacial time (16-13 ka BP; 14C on mollusk’s shells) a Great Eurasian Basin System (~1.5 million km2, ~650,000-700,000 km3) developed due to a climate warming, the melting of the Scandinavia Ice Sheet and massive river discharge. This is supported by freshwater and alluvial sediments (e.g., chocolate clays, loams and sands with a thickness of ca 20-30 m) with endemic Caspian mollusks Didacna, Monodacna, Adacna, and Hypanis widely distributed from the Caspian Sea to the Dardanelles including waterways between the basins. At the beginning (16-15 ka BP), the flood was especially rapid, increasing the Caspian Sea level by 100-150 m, reaching +50 m and pushing the Volga River mouth upstream in ca 1,500 km. The discharge of the large (Volga, Don, Dnieper) and small rivers increased by 2-4 and 20-35 times respectively, causing megafloods. The high speed of the flood can be seen from incising river paleomeanders not filled with sediment. A large amount of water could not be kept in the Caspian depression and was discharged into the Neweuxinian basin (ancient Black Sea) through the Manych-Kerch Strait at a speed 50,000 m3 sec-1, and from there across the Bosporus to the Sea of Marmara. As a result, the level of the Black Sea increased by 60-70 m and reached a level of approximately -20 m at the end of the Pleistocene. Archeological evidence from the late Paleolithic sites (e.g., Kamennaya Balka, Avdeevo, Byki, and Kapova Cave) suggests that large-scale flooding of the coastal zone by water from the late Pleistocene basins together with river megafloods caused a reduction of available living space and hunting areas, resulting in a mass migration and subsequent increase in population density. The decrease in available food resources per capita affected everyday life of the Palaeolithic people and was likely to have stimulated the transition from hunting and gathering to farming and cattle breeding in the region. Thus, it is possible that this flood affected the Late Paleolithic people so deeply as to form the legend of the Great Flood.

-- LATE GLACIAL GREAT FLOOD IN THE BLACK SEA AND CASPIAN SEA

20 posted on 02/29/2004 1:09:47 PM PST by Fedora
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To: Fedora
"Blam, I'd be interested to hear any thoughts you have on that idea or this subject in general."

All the flood stories are related to the end of the Ice Age. Take a long look at this map with the worlds oceans reduced by a little over 300 ft. The Ice Age caused a reduction in depth of the world's ocean by 300-500ft and most scholars will accept 400ft.

Notice on the map that there are a number of major waterways that are blocked during the Ice Age...There were probably a number of examples like the Black Sea Flood. Look at the Mediterreanean (it's in two, maybe three parts) the Red Sea is landlocked and the Persian Gulf is completely dry. I think the Gulf Of Mexico also was blocked. These landlocked-blocked bodies of water would have completely dried out or eventually stabilized at a much lower level that the worlds oceans. When the water from the melting ice reached a given level, each one of the areas would have experienced a break-through and a 'Noah's Flood' that would have stayed in the collective minds of humans through the ages.

I'm toying with the idea that the Red Sea was dry or almost dry and all the fireworks/earthquakes/tsunamis, etc. associated with the 1628BC eruption of Thera/Santorini broke through the 'dam' and swept away the Egyptians who wer pursuing the Jews on their Exodus. Charred grain has been found above the Santorini ash layer but below the collapsed walls of Jerico.

There would have been millions of refugees from the Mediterranean each time the water rose high enough to break through each 'dam.'...and there is no obvious source of the water.

More at another time, lol.

22 posted on 02/29/2004 2:44:36 PM PST by blam
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