The Purpose of the Passion (Not all believers thought Jesus had to die for our sins)

Dallas Morning News ^ | 2-20-2004 | Susan Albach/Hogan

[Just mythoughts]

"No, original sin has nothing to do with sex."


Oh, really, what kind of fruit then eaten, that tells you, you are naked and need fig leaves to cover your private parts?

What was the curse given to that glimmering serpent?

[supercat]

All in good time Satan got the DEATH sentence!

Since he's still around, are you suggesting God works even more slowly than U.S. courts?

[AnalogReigns]

Although the Bible clearly commands that the Lord is to be worshipped as Supreme God, and no other shall be put before him, it does not say that no other gods exist. Further, although the Lord may be omnipotent by human standards, that does not mean he isn't bound by certain 'rules', whether self-inflicted or imposed by the existence of other gods.

Ummmm, dude, hate to break it to you, but by any classical Christian denominational doctrine, Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox,(or even Baptist!) the idea that God is bound by any "god" or anything outside Himself is heresy. Scripture clearly teaches that ABOVE God there are no others. Are there other spiritual powers? Sure, and every one is finite, whereas the Creator of all that is, is infinite. Only M*rm*nism teaches otherwise...and its not accepted as Christian by any classical Christian denomination (I'm not counting the wacky liberals here).

God is self-limited by His own nature--in that He's non-contrdictory, and cannot do wrong, and is always righteous.

I hate to contradict St. Aquinas, but for God's righteousness and mercy to both work, the crucifixion was required. For an all-powerful God to have redeemed mankind just through an act of will would have compromised His righteous nature...hence an impossible contradiction. Of course true Mercy is ALWAYS voluntary...(to say God SHOULD have mercy is a contradiction) and God did not have to save any human from our just fate in Hell--however God in His voluntary mercy through the Son, Jesus, chose to save, and that makes all the difference.

[spunkets]

"Jesus had to die."

He could have died of old age if some folks would have been nice. They weren't, but that was because they chose evil over good. Their are others that were mostly good, but none other than Him that were totally. See Isaiah 63, Jesus was given the keys. He chose to forgive them. All except those that reject the Holy Spirit.

Had those nasty folks repented and not killed Him, He would have been just as forgiving. The measure of intensity of His death quantified the evil in the world.

[Just mythoughts]

God has patience, giving all his children that opportunity to pass the test.

Would not want anyone to call Him unfair.

[AnalogReigns]

Original sin just means we were born sinners, with the inclination to sin, and implies every area of our lives (including sex) is affected (or infected) by sin.

Adam and Eve experienced shame of their bodies due to their awareness of sin...probably due to the coveteousness they knew for the first time.

The biblical text gives no hint of the old medieval (dare I say medieval Roman Catholic?) alegorical interpretation that the story of the Fall was really about sex.

I think the medieval scholastics were just frustrated...

[spunkets]

"Jesus was a liberal social worker in other words"

That's what they've been working on for a long time now. They intend to use their evil construction to promote their own agenda and leave Him out altogether. They are attempting to erase His identity and replace it with their own.

[Just mythoughts]

"Original sin just means we were born sinners, with the inclination to sin, and implies every area of our lives (including sex) is affected (or infected) by sin."

Really? Where is this written? check out the meaning of that word "TOUCH". Might have to dig deep.

[AnalogReigns]

The rationale of what you're saying means that in heaven--when we cannot sin anymore--we'll do nothing "that matters" Or that Jesus, since He never sinned, couldn't have done anything "that matters"

On its face, pretty silly. Of course Adam and Even in innocence and obedience could have done many things that matter....like tend the garden, raise kids and found the human race.

Now, if you are meaning that was it God's plan even before creation to send His Son to die for us? Yes of course. In that sense was Adam and Eve's sin inside His (ultimate)will? Yes also.

We're getting into the deeply mysterious here though--and best tred lightly.

[marron]

Catholic Christians and "Protestant" Christians share a similar problem. Not all catholics and not all protestants are Christians. Clearly the people cited in the article are not believers.

There are entire protestant bodies that have slid away into apostacy, and only the geniuses in the press still consider them to be Christians. And there is a further problem, which is that the theology departments at state universities seem to specialize in graduating "theologians" who only barely believe in God if at all. If they have managed to stick around long enough to get a diploma they almost certainly have lost any faith in Biblical scripture.

Again, this is a problem among nominal "cultural christians", catholic and protestant alike.

It has nothing to do with believers, whether they be catholic or evangelical. On the issues covered in Gibson's film there is no daylight at all between them. They are in absolute and reverent agreement.

[spunkets]

"Here is the problem with ignoring the Apostolic Succession. If every man is his own Pope, then we can decide that Jesus did NOT die for us."

It has nothing to do with apostolic succession. Those people don't believe in God anyway. They made up their own for their own evil purposes. The fact is, that every man is his own Pope, because of free will and Jesus' promise to send the Holy Spirit to all.

[AnalogReigns]

And there is a further problem, which is that the theology departments at state universities seem to specialize in graduating "theologians" who only barely believe in God if at all.

Actually most private universities too. How tragic that the Ivy League schools' seminaries were once fully orthodox, now 98% apostate.

There are good schools around though, I'm going to a good one: Reformed Theological Seminary.

[Just mythoughts]

You are going to a Seminary?

[AnalogReigns]

Yep, part time now, full time next year....Lord willing.

[spunkets]

" the fact is that ignoring the Apostles and their clear and God Inspired successors leades to acceptance of such nonsense. This is why divorce... happens in so many so called "churches".

The Catholic Church allows divorce. It allows it by ignoring sin, denying the sin and declaring the marriage never happened. They call it annulment.

[spunkets]

"Oh, really, what kind of fruit then eaten, that tells you, you are naked and need fig leaves to cover your private parts? "

I don't know, but I'm sure it's listed as a schedule 1 on the DEA list.

[Salamander]

Now, having said that, do we really need to have this kind of argument over Mel Gibson's film, for crying out loud?

How true.

Having failed to ignite a "holy war" between Christians and Jews with this movie, perhaps the Adversary contents himself with provoking the tried-and-true game of "Catholics vs. Protestants", instead.
As usual, we unsheathe our swords and charge wildly into battle, to the devil's everlasting delight.

Someone above wisely mentioned the letters to 7 churches.

I seem to also recall Paul saying in 1st Corinthians;

12:14

For the body is not one member, but many.

And 12:12;

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.

The "kicker" comes earlier on in 12:3

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

[Just mythoughts]

So exactly what does the seiminary say the sin was that Adam, Eve and the serpent committed.

Their punishment gives much insight as to what the sin was.

Do you have a Strongs? If so check out that word TOUCH used in Genesis 3:3

If you don't have a Strongs I would be more than happy to post what the meaning of the word is.

[marron]

If your professors and your fellow students are serious believers, then you are in the right place.

I assume that a good part of the problem is that a public university can't require or enforce that its professors be believers at all, and often they are not. I am aware of the head of the theology department here at our local university, and he is most certainly not.

The most effective theological teaching is probably going to be in a private school associated with a given church, where the scripture is taken seriously, and an approach that is orthodox to that body can be enforced. I'm all for intellectual freedom even in seminary. But your profs should at least be Bible-believing Christians. All the above is true with the Catholic seminaries, some of which seem to be first rate and some of which have apparently lost their way. The good ones, as you would expect, are very good.

[Just mythoughts]

"I don't know, but I'm sure it's listed as a schedule 1 on the DEA list."


Got nothing to do with DEA.