The Purpose of the Passion (Not all believers thought Jesus had to die for our sins)

Dallas Morning News ^ | 2-20-2004 | Susan Albach/Hogan

[spunkets]

"If one is destroyed how can they be in hell, they exist no longer.

Ponder N. Korea. Those people are essentially dead. That's also where the rats would like to take the whole world. Nothing you have given me contradicts what I gave you that God Himself said.

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

You are wrong about Adam and Eve. In their natural state they were perfect and undefiled. God said to them that the day they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would surely die. When they ate of that tree, they became mortal. Their mortality is a result of their sin.

The word mortal means subject to death. If Adam and Ever remained sinless, they would have lived forever. They became sinners, and were subject to death. They became mortal.

If you believe that Jesus was mortal, you must hold to the position that Jesus was a sinner. And if he was a sinner, he could not be a saviour.

[PresbyRev]

Wise words. It is disheartening to see every thread on The Passion of Christ almost immediately revert to debating the doctrinal controversies of the 1500's.

At least we Christians are nothing if not consistent.

[Siobhan]

Actually some threads are debating old arguments of the year 1054. God bless.

[Theo]

I love doctrine. It helps me appreciate the personality of God, His greatness/glory/love/wrath/wonder, and my sinfulness/neediness. It helps me understand what He's done for me. For all humanity. And I'm affected.

That said, it's not my "correct doctrine" that saves me. It's Jesus who has saved me, from the wrath of the One I've sinned against.

Um. That said, it really is impossible to have a relationship with Jesus without growing in my knowledge of Him, and so I love sound doctrine....

But the point is, sometimes we get the focus on "doctrine" because that helps us keep the focus off Christ (who can be pretty threatening)....

[PresbyRev]

I agree with you without reservation. I am not a navel-gazing evangelical who poo poos doctrine. I simply think dragging the never ending intramural debates out on topics like The Passion are conducted at the wrong place and time.

Our common foe - Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox alike - is the secularism and paganism 'out there' in the culture that is seeking to muzzle Christian expression. The enemy too are those Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox who apologize for the Gospel, distort its meaning, or join its detractors.

It would seem that now is the time to press ahead, each in our own way, taking the battle to the skeptics and Christ-deniers who are assaulting the Gospel. Now is the time to confront them with the radical proclamation 'Jesus is Lord'
and press the claims of Christ the King. It would seem that that was the intent of Mr. Gibson and I like his thinking.

[spunkets]

"If Adam and Ever remained sinless, they would have lived forever. They became sinners, and were subject to death. They became mortal.

They were created and placed in this universe. That requires them to be mortal. Mortality however does not relate to sin. they are separate concepts. They are orthagonal if you want to look at it that way.

"If you believe that Jesus was mortal, you must hold to the position that Jesus was a sinner."

Jesus was mortal, but he was not a sinner. Jesus was a man just as Adam and Eve were. They both knew the difference between good and evil. Jesus chose good and was thus free of sin.

" In their natural state they were perfect and undefiled."

What is a natural state? If they were perfect and undefiled, how could they commit sin? If they didn't know the difference between good and evil, how can they be justly held responsible and accountable for their actions? These are the questions that have to be answered.

[narses]

God moves in mysterious ways. He is cleaning His Church again.