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To: *crevo_list; VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Physicist; LogicWings; ...
PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]
3 posted on 02/24/2004 7:31:18 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Restore the night, smash your light bulbs! Edison is the source of all evil in the modern world!)
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To: PatrickHenry
Polite question: I genuinely don't understand how Godel's discovery could support evolution, yet you are pinging your evolution list with this article. How do you see Godel's proof as supporting evolution? Thank you in advance.
6 posted on 02/24/2004 7:41:59 AM PST by old-ager
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To: PatrickHenry; Doctor Stochastic; Godel; RadioAstronomer; ThinkPlease; Physicist
Any given mathematical statement (eg, 11 is a prime number) must either be true or false, right?

Wrong! Godel showed that however elaborate mathematics becomes, there will always exist some statements (not the above ones though) that can never be proved true or false.

The "primeness" of "11" is no more in doubt than any other proven theorem in Mathematics. The author is very misleading in his presentation of the example, though he then correctly states the reality in the subsequent paragraph, though he leaves out an important caveat: Gödel showed that there will exist some statements derivable in a mathematical system which can't be decided based on the axioms of that system. There is nothing, however, to prevent you from proving the statement true by appealing to axioms outside of the system you are working in.

But the point remains: any statement which is proveable by standard Mathematical proof techniques is NOT a "Gödel statement" and hence is NOT undecideable. That some statements are undecideable cast no doubt on the ones we can, and do eventually prove. There is no evidence that reality will turn out to be based on Gödelian statements, so it may not even be an issue for physicists.

13 posted on 02/24/2004 7:55:24 AM PST by longshadow
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To: PatrickHenry
Thanks for the ping!
46 posted on 02/24/2004 7:12:45 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: PatrickHenry
Thanks for the ping. What about Tesla? Not the band...
51 posted on 02/24/2004 8:37:32 PM PST by BiffWondercat
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