Invasion of the Kennewick Men

Tech Central Station ^ | 02/24/2004 | Jackson Kuhl

[farmfriend]

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[D-fendr_2]

no relationship could be established between modern American Indians and Kennewick Man

Oh, my. What did native Americans do to the Native Americans?

[Redcloak]

Of course, the oh-so-politically incorrect implication of a sea route into the Americas down the west coast is that similar travel along the east coast is also possible. A similarity between Clovis tool technology and Solutrean tools found in Europe is easily explained if our ancestors were more seaworthy than previously imagined. Why is this "politically incorrect"? Because it recasts the Indians as just another bunch of invaders; not the perfect victims as the Left would have them seen. There is a great desire on the Left to bury, and thus forget, the 9400 year old bones of a man who looked remarkably like Patrick Stewart.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Why is this "politically incorrect"?

Because those who control the purse strings are very narrow minded. The assorted scientific fields are rife with inaccuracies because of it. I no longer trust them. They'll say anything to get grant money.

[ApplegateRanch]

How much shorter was the water distance both from Asia to the western U.S. & from Europe to the eastern U.S., considering the water levels were 300+ feet lower?? Africa to Central/South America? I'm to lazy to go looking for charts at this time of night.

Question #2: How did the main currents differ, considering the vast differences in the heat-engine driving them, thanks to the glaciation?

[Varda]

The probable answer is that they intermarried with them.

[blam]

"The probable answer is that they intermarried with them."

Maybe later. The first American Indian skeletons didn't start showing up in the skeletal record until about 6,000 years ago. Previous to that, there were different people here thought to be related to the Ainu...and, maybe even others.

Iberia, Not Siberia.

[blam]

Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida)

[Varda]

I think later intermarriage would produce a different out come in population genetics. Of course I don't dispute that there was inter tribal warfare. That was the norm in those days. Many experts believe Indians are the result of the mixing of multiple migration events one of which was 6000 years ago. Modern races seem to be the result of Holocene adaptations.
So, it's not surprising that modern looking mongoloid remains haven't been found until 6000 years ago in North America. Modern looking mongoloid remains haven't been found prior to 7000 years BP in Asia. According to Cavalli-Sforza, most modern Indians still retain DNA that suggests a separation from all other populations 30,000 yBP.
IMHO, that means the first of the modern mongoloids would have had to intermarry fairly soon upon arriving in the western hemisphere and before tribal warfare or new diseases reduced the pure members of the original population to low levels.

[Joe 6-pack]

Kerrywick Man

[ForGod'sSake]

I no longer trust them. They'll say anything to get grant money.

As one who just recently began following the wanderings/exploits of early humans, I'm astounded by what appears to be a PC link at almost every turn. So, what gives? Where does most of the funding come from; endowments, foundations, by and through universities? IOW, just who is meting out the funds? Is this "liberal" money or "conservative" money? My bet is on liberal money(with nothing really to base it on, except what appears to be a liberal mindset). The fact that Kennewick man actually survived(?) this round is sort of amazing in itself; particularly coming out of the 9th Circus.

Anyway, if liberals, in their quest for their utopian paradise, are willing and able to spend reams of money on skewing the outcomes of their pet science projects(shades of 1984?), conservatives might have to rethink their spending habits? Liberal spending is agenda(long term) driven whereas conservative spending is bottom line(shorter term?) driven. I submit that one could argue the profit motive is also a long term plan in that it speaks to the longevity of the entity in question, but the motivations are completely different. I suppose there's always the possibility the profit motive could be driven by the utopians' desire(agenda) to "run" things?

It's disturbing in any case.

FGS

[Varda]

From the article linked ... "Hauswirth said it contains genetic markers, or specific segments of DNA that are affiliated with one small subset of modern American Indians. This suggests that the Windover people did not reproduce with people from other groups,"

So I guess he means that the modern tribe are the only direct descendent's of this group. Also, interesting is that Windover is the site of the oldest known bottle gourd,
"At Windover, a bottle gourd, Lagenaria siceraria, was found carefully placed in one burial. The plant, a type of squash, is believed to have originated in Africa."
http://www.rps.psu.edu/0305/planted.html

Perhaps the people also have African origins.

[BlessedByLiberty]

I love this list! Thank you!

[D-fendr_2]

The probable answer is that they intermarried with them.

But wouldn't that belie the assertion:

"…no relationship could be established between modern American Indians and Kennewick Man…"

[Varda]

NAGPRA requires that evidence exist of a cultural or physical connection with a current tribe. It was necessary to do this because prior to NAGPRA people used to simply grave rob even recent burials.

The ruling simply agrees that no current tribe has any evidence that this particular body is affiliated with their tribe.

That the first population of the Americas left descendent's that are current native Americans is something that the genetic tests seem to affirm. That the culture he came from or Kennewick Man in particular may have left descendent's is something that the researchers hope to find out.

[Fedora]

It's disturbing in any case.

It is. On a similar note, I was recently reading an atlas of American Indian history, and there were similar problems there. In the author's coverage of theories about pre-Colombian migrations to America, although they were willing to entertain some "alternative" hypotheses on this subject that have been raised by recent scholarship, they prefaced the whole discussion by condemning as motivated by "cultural superiority" early European colonists' speculations about whether the parallels between the Mound Builder Culture and Celtic mounds, Central American pyramids and Egyptian pyramids, etc. might reflect cross-cultural contact. They went on to add that such attitudes of "cultural superiority" are disputed by current opinions on the mounds' indigenous origins. Evidently many scholars cannot even consider the hypothesis of trans-Atlantic influence on pre-Columbian American culture without political correctness censoring their thinking.

[blam]

I haven't seen or read any follow-up on this 'European' DNA

European DNA Found In 7-8,000 Year Old Skeleton In Florida (Windover)

[Varda]

The follow up is that the jury is out,... again. It has now been established that all the mtDNA markers including haplotype X have been found in Asia. Haplotype X was found in the Altai, where it has been traditionally thought one of the founding groups emigrated to the new world.

Also genetic tests show that the haplotype X the NA have is different then that of current europeans,
"None of the Native American haplotype X mtDNAs have the same sequence motif as the European mtDNAs demonstrating that the Native American haplogroup X mtDNAs are not the result of recent European mixing with Native American popu- lations.
THE GENOMItREWLUTION X mtDNAs shared a common ancestor, about 15,000 YBP. Hence, the Native American haplogroup X arrived in the Americas long before Columbus and must represent yet another ancient migration to the New World originating from either Asia or Europe." http://books.nap.edu/books/0309074363/html/131.html

[Fedora]

Thanks for the updates on that.