Cleland's Time At The Front

Various | Hon

[mewzilla]

How he managed to lose his soul is another story.

If you should get a chance, take a look at Cleland's FEC records, especially the committee donations he's received. Cleland is just another feeder at the trough of Dem special interests.

[Robe]

A grenade consists of a lemon sized hollow steel casing filled with an explosive powder, a cap like device screws into the top, IT consists of a little spring loaded flipper (don't cha love the tech talk )a handle holds the flipper open , and the handle is held in place by a pin( looks just like a cotter pin) with a large ring on to to put your finger in.
You hold the grenade in your hand and hold the handle down with your fingers, When you pull the pin, and throw the thing.. the handle immediately is flung off, and the little flapper slams down on a primer which sets a fuse to burning in a tube connected to the top.
After a period of time , anywhere from 3 to 15 seconds the grenade goes BOOM Anybody out there that can explain it better , feel free to jump on in..

[CaptainLou]

I applaud and thank anyone who wore the uniform of our country, especially those that did so in a combat situation.

That being said, I also don't think we should be giving anyone a free pass about what they say or do upon returning home.

I don't think anyone here would denegrate Cleland's service, it's what came after that service and how he's leveraged it for personal gain that are the issue. IMHO, the heros aren't the ones that have to constantly remind folks about their accomplishments.

[lilylangtree]

Good reference information.

[CaptainLou]

A grenade consists of a lemon sized hollow steel casing filled with an explosive powder, a cap like device screws into the top, IT consists of a little spring loaded flipper (don't cha love the tech talk )a handle holds the flipper open , and the handle is held in place by a pin( looks just like a cotter pin) with a large ring on to to put your finger in.
You hold the grenade in your hand and hold the handle down with your fingers, When you pull the pin, and throw the thing.. the handle immediately is flung off, and the little flapper slams down on a primer which sets a fuse to burning in a tube connected to the top.
After a period of time , anywhere from 3 to 15 seconds the grenade goes BOOM Anybody out there that can explain it better , feel free to jump on in..

During basic training we had a guy who pulled the pin, flipped the handle, and THEN threw the grenade. He was on his way home that afternoon. Those aren't the kinds of people you want in your fox hole. :-)

[N. Theknow]

Students name: Cleland, Max

Course of Study: Grenade Handling

Grade: F

Teacher's comments: When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

[LibWhacker]

Thanks, Hon, bookmarked! The facts appear correct and it's never wrong or shameful to compile facts.

[chimera]

And I've never heard a hero BRAG about his combat record. Just isn't done.

This is why I think Kerry is a phony. No one I ever knew who was in tough, life-threatening combat would ever run off at the mouth about it like Kerry does.

And I have known many war heroes. I'll start with my Dad, who was in the second wave ashore at Normandy on D-Day. As much as I pleaded with him, he wouldn't talk to me about it. He made it from there to the Rhine and was in any number of hot combat situations, but would never speak of them unless prodded to do so.

His brother was in the Navy and was at Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7th. Then was on the radar picket line during the waves of kamikazes. He only talked about it once when we were watching a "Victory At Sea" episode.

Another uncle was a turret gunner on the B-29s that flew raids in the Pacific. He survived a crash on landing that knocked him and one other crewmember out of the plane as it cartwheeled and exploded down the runway, breaking his arm and some ribs. They were the only survivors. The one and only time he ever talked about it was to relate that incident to us, although I always wondered how he was wounded in the war.

So when I hear these ersatz "heroes" like John Kerry piping up, I have to hold my tongue, lest my anger and disgust at their feigned "heroism" lead me to actions I'll later regret.

[stylin19a]

your headline stinks.

That they served matters. How they served is a matter for them & their GOD.

How someone trying to get elected presents their military service, is also a matter for the American public.

Present the facts as they stand. Don't bias it with a really crummy headline.

Semper Fi

[RicocheT]

Cleland served and did his duty. Don't attack his service record. If you are in a combat area one minute or one year, you are where any number of things can kill or maim you.

I do disagree with Cleland's political ideas in his post-Vietnam political jobs. You can disagree with those without putting down the Vet's service record. Same deal with Kerry and McCaine.

[Dilbert56]

Question about: "GWB was never at the front". From what I've read, his group was assigned the role of intercepting strategic bombers (presumably from the Soviet Union). For that mission, isn't anyone who is at plus-five readiness on the front lines. You don't have to be physically in Alaska do you?

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

That is the way I heard this story as well- it was a fairly common (although stupid and unsafe practice) for young troops, especially those without an Infantry MOS, to hook grenades to webgear by the ring. Subsequent movement, snagging on objects in vehicles or aircraft, etc could cause a disaster.eXPERIENCED NCO'S PREVENTED MANY OF THESE. Note that Cleland was a Signal Corps officer, whose Infantry skills probably did not extend beyond the ability to clean his .45. iT IS SO LIKE A DEMOCRAT TO TRY TO SHIFT THE BLAME TO SOME UNKNOWN LOW-RANKING SOLDIER -BUT IN THIS CASE IT IS OBVIOUSLY NONSENSE.

Accidental death and injury during this war was far more common than almost anyone can imagine. I have a theory that more men died from accidents, including training accidents, during the official ten years of the Vietnam War, than were killed or wounded in combat. (my own Special Forces class lost nine killed and 3 permanently disabled in TRAINING ACCIDENTS! And these were experienced soldiers, most with at least a tour in the combat zone. i PERSONALLY HAVE SEEN hundreds OF ACCIDENTAL DEATHS, INCLUDING AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTS, ARTILLERY ACCIDENTS, MISHANDLING OF WEAPONS, DROWNINGS DURING WATER-CROSSING OPERATIONS, ETC ETC.
Am I saying that accidental deaths are less tragic than dying by stepping on a mine, etc? No, I'm not. I AM saying that this Cleland story has been PURPOSELY muddied up by himself and his worthless Democrat Party (which STArted THIS WAR, REMEMBER...) IN ORDER TO GET HIM ELECTED IN gEORGIA, ONE OF THE sTATES WHERE A MILITARY RECORD IS A POSITIVE THING, EVEN NOW. (aSK A FEW PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW POLITICS HOW cLELAND WAS QOUNDED, AND YOU WILL HEAR THAT IT WAS A COMBAT INJURY FROM PRACTICALLY ALL. aHH, THE POWER OF MYTH...
fLAME AWAY, ALL YOU ARMCHAIR WARRIORS- i DO NOT GIVE THE nORTH END OF A sOUTH-bOUND rAT WHAT YOU THINK. (iF YOU ARE A dEMOCRAT IS AMAZING THAT YOU CAN GENERATE ENOUGH BRAIN POWER TO KEEP YOUR LUNGS WORKING!

[The Shrew]

The only thing that I would add to your description of the function of a grenade is that it is possible to "Milk" a grenade and allow the 'spoon' enough slack that the primer can be ignited while the spoon is still on the grenade. This is NOT a good thing.

Semper Fi,

TS

[znix]

This post and most of the comments here are disgraceful.

What matters is that they served.

[optimistically_conservative]

Within a short time, word came over that a sergeant, an older man, had straightened the cotter pins on two hand grenades he’d had hanging on his belt.

Evidently he’d done that recently when B-company was in contact with the enemy. Just now he must have somehow bumped them and they slipped off the pins. The sad part is that the sergeant was killed in the explosions.

Here was yet another example a man who’d lost his life senselessly, because of a fatal mistake.

Just about everyone in the field, including myself, carried at least two hand grenades hooked onto the front shoulderstraps of his pack. The ring that was pulled from a grenade, just before it was thrown, was attached to a cotter pin that went through the handle and prevented the firing mechanism from arming. The two ends of the cotter pin, where they stuck out the other side of the handle, were bent over so that it couldn’t accidentally slip out, and no one ever straightened those ends unless they were going to use the grenade right after they did.

That was what made this particular incident so odd. Even the least experienced man knew not to straighten those pins unless he was actually going to throw the grenade, yet this sergeant, who clearly should have known better, had just given his life for something so simple. ( http://www.cdl.panam.edu/dayoung/vn_pdf/gyp-47.pdf )

Other references:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-30/ch1.htm#p5

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-30/ch3.htm#s1

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-30/appb.htm

[verity]

"At the front" is inappropriate when referring to RVN.

[optimistically_conservative]

"Hair trigger" explained here.

[devane617]

What does any of this matter? As a Republican, and a person with a severe disability that has been in a wheelchair for forty years, I fail to see the benefit in attacking MC. MC has tried to make the best of a very bad situation that most of you could not comprehend, although on the wrong side of the isle. I see no benefit to conservatives to continue this attack.

[BadAndy]

"JF'ing Kerry abandoned his water craft & crew, ran ashore and shot a wounded, fleeing (cowering?) Viet Cong (likely) in the back."

Don't forget, the VC was also probably unarmed since he dropped his rocket launcher after being hit with a 50 Caliber round.

[cc2k]

Robe wrote:

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How do you SET the pin on a grenade for a hair-trigger detonation?

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The pin on a grenade is basically a soft metal cotter pin. It's just like a cotter pin you might find on your car or lawn mower. The ends are bent over to hold it in the hole, and the "eye" on the other end has a ring through it so it's easier to pull the pin out. You have to pull hard enough to pull and straighten the bent ends through the hole.

If you want to make it easier to pull the pin, you can straighten the ends of the cotter pin. This makes the pin relatively loose in the hole and it requires a little less force to pull the pin. Of course, that makes it easier to accidentally remove the pin when you don't want to.

Robe wrote:

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From Cleland"sown mouth at a dinner in Atlanta 'bout 6-8 years ago, was..... he had affixed the grenade to his webbing BY THE PIN RING!!!!...When he bent over the weight of the grenade pulled out the pin and it fell to the ground... he then bent over to pick it up when it went off !!!!

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That's what Max thought happened. For a long time, Max thought it was his own grenade that blew him up. But a few years back, he actually got a letter from the man who the grenade belonged to (or maybe he actually met the guy, I don't remember exactly). That soldier (now retired) said that he had straigtenned the pins on his grenades, and that is likely how the pin came out when it was dropped on the ground. I don't think he had his grenade attached to his webbing by the pin ring, though.